Looking for help with WAW

[mza8]

Read your response to mine, I quoted it above.
You sound so damn unsure of yourself, you sound weak, insecure, uncertain, etc. This is also the person that she is no longer attracted to, how could she be, what is attractive in any of these traits. You can't lead yourself let alone her, you aren't confident about yourself or what to do in your situation, you sound weak, insecure, scared, lonely, sad and your wife isn't going to be attracted to any of this.

I get it. This is all very unsettling, your world has been turned upside down like a big old box full of bits & pieces of junk that's been sitting in the garage for years and someone just grabbed it, turned it upside and poured out a big old mess and you don't know where to start and your first question is why did someone do this me? In the end, you're going to see that you did it to yourself, not now, it's too soon for that but several months or a year from now hopefully you will see why this happened and that it was actually a good thing, it's an opportunity for you to experience growth that very few people will get to experience - that is of course if you're up to the challenge.

When I say be masculine to be attractive (or something like that, that can't be a direct quote), I mean be a MAN.
You know the funny thing, a couple of years ago when this all happened to me, if someone had said to me "BE A MAN!" I would have had a blank look on my face and asked "what do you mean? I was born a male?!"

Be a man.
Do the research.
Google it, find out what it means to be a man, a real man and not this person that you are right now.

Taking care of things with the house doesn't make you a man, anyone can own a home, so that's not it.

What responsibilities are you taking charge with that make you a man? Paying the bills? Anyone can do that, so that's not it either.

You haven't asked for anything, well that's a double edged sword, maybe that's part of the problem, you're not aggressive or assertive enough, when I want something, I sure as hell ask for it if I can't do it or make it myself. I get what I want in my life now, I make it happen, I don't wait for someone to put it neatly in my lap after being a good boy and getting rewarded. I reward myself by doing it myself, making it happen for me when I want it to happen. I just do it!

What confuses you about her wanting to pursue?
That's weird that you don't understand that. If she doesn't want you anymore, don't you think she's pursuing something else?

Forget about balance right now,
you're at one end of the spectrum, you need to experience the other end of the spectrum and then you can choose when to scale back and find "balance".

Don't answer her calls or answer them, it's up to you, do it because you want to do it but don't do it because you're afraid it will make her angry, that's definitely not masculine or manly to be afraid of someone's response.

You can't directly change her emotions, you can influence them a little. Currently she's against you because you're against her feelings/emotions, throw her a curve ball, agree with all of her emotions/feelings. She expects you to fight against all of this, go along with it willingly with a huge confident smile on your face.

As for her enjoying the distance between you too, yes I'm sure she is, maybe you should too ;-)

Robx, you're right. After reading what I wrote I do sound weak. It's sickens me. This is not the man I once was. When I owned my company I had huge responsibilities. I felt like the king of the world. I feel so empowered. I made the decisions. I stood up for myself. I was strong and confident. There was a lot of stress but I dealt with it so well and took it head on. I was far from perfect but I was proud of the man I was during that time. Where did that guy go? I'll be the first to admit that when I lost my company my world was turned upside down. I was devastated. I didn't know what to do next. For the two years that followed that's when I believe things started to deteriorate with my W. She saw a weak man now. I understand that, it makes sense.

During the time I owned my company I was always a very analytical person. I would look at problems a hundred ways to figure out the best way to solve the problem. I always believed I could fix any problem. I had so much confidence. That's sort of my problem now. I analyze this sitch to death. I know it's unhealthy to do this as I will drive myself crazy. However, I look at things and try to find ways that it makes sense. Yes, I can see many of the reasons my W left. I feel like I know this now, which is good. That's why I'm working so damn hard to change. I can now see what I have become and I'm not proud of it. I felt like a complete failure to my W and to myself after I lost my company. With the help of my IC, I now know the severe depression I suffered during that time. I don't regret that I lost my business because I tried my best under extremely difficult circumstances. What I do regret is the fact that I didn"t seek C (help) back then. My W asked me too and I didn't listen. She knew, she could see it. I couldn't. What a jackass I was and in some ways still am. I don't want to control my W but for the life of me I cannot understand why she just ran and wants a D so bad? Why will she not give me a second chance? It makes no sense to me and again I look for reasons to make sense out of a situation. That's just who I am. That's why it's so difficult for me to just walk away. To just ignore the sitch. I have said before that I would do anything for my W. Makes me upset to hear myself say that. If I would do anything for her than why in the hell didn't i get off my a$$ two years ago and man-up and take care of her? Depression can certainly be attributed to this but come on, I should have done better...a lot better. Dammit, I know I messed up. I would give anything to do it all over again.

I read a lot fo others sitchs on this board. I feel for them so much. I know what they're going through. It's so sad to see some of the problems of infidelity, drug or alcohol abuse, and the numerous other issues. Those can be difficult things to overcome but I am amazed and truly inspired to see, despite those problems, how those people work their butts off to continue to fight for their M. God bless these people. I wish the best outcome for them. When I read some of those sitchs I look at my own sitch. I don't have those issues to deal with. In some ways i don't know if that makes me better off or not. I feel like if they're was one or two major issues then I could easily see what needed to be done...expose A, etc. Since I don't have those issues in my sitch, I can't figure out why W won't at least agree not to D and give this some time. I don't even need her to go to MC now. I would be so happy to give her space but just stop with this D talk. I mean, how in the world can we go from seemingly being ok (obviously she wasn't) to her wanting a D. I am shocked. At worst I would have thought W would want to separate until we could work on our M through C first. I can't even get that opportunity.

I read others sitchs to track their progress. Some show signs of positive progress. Their spouse seems to be coming around. Some of their spouses who said they were done now are at least talking about the M. I look for any signs in my W but she seems so gone. In some ways she is such a different person and in some ways not so much. I would love to see her grow. I would love to be married to this new person. I'd like to get to know this new W if she would just give me a chance.

Sorry for the long post but it felt good to write this down. I'll back off. I'll let her pursue (for whatever the reasons). It's just difficult for me to accept the fact that i can't do anything other than to do nothing to fix this. Boy, that's hard for me. I'll continue to change the things I know I need to improve. I need to get back to being the man I used to be. I miss that guy and maybe my W does too.

I do need to be more assertive. Instead of letting my W walk all over me I need to ask her for the things I want. For the past couple of years I would always do whatever she wanted to make her happy. For example, for something as simple as picking a restaurant to go out to eat, she would always ask me where I wanted to go. I would respond and say that I didn't care and said wherever she wante to go. She would get so frustrated with me. How sad and weak...yuck.

Robx, I read up on some of your sitch. Was it giving your W time and space as well as being a strong man some of the things that helped turn around your sitch for the positive? It is frustrating that my W bases her decisinos on emotion right now. However, if that's where she is then who am I to argue with her. I can't argue with her feelings. I know she is enjoying her time away from me. I would love to know if she will ever enjoy spending time with me again. Ahhh, the $64,000 question.

A friend of mine passed away yesterday. He died of cancer and was only 33 years old. So young. He was married and had a young son. Life is so short. There are people out there with far more problems than me, When I thought about my friend today it made me think how my W and i shouldn't at least give ourselves a chance to work on the marriage. Life is too short not to try and have doubts later in life. My friend's W supported and way there for him until the end. True love.

All I ever wanted from my W during my struggles after I lost my company was her support. That's all. I just wanted her to think of me and tell me everything would be ok like I always told her. Instead she always seemed concerned about how it affected her. Don't get me wrong, she is a great woman but she just wasn't in a place to give me the support I was looking for and it was dissappointning. Again, all I ever wanted from her was some support during a difficult time in my life.




Steve, yes, you're right. I get what you're saying. There's a lot of life to live out there. Until my W decides to reconcile or to D, I have to go out and live life. I wish I could live that life with my W. By the way Steve, I do go to the gym but I'm a soccer nut and play 4 times a week. So instead of a lot of gym work I do a lot of running. I love it. I'll have to work on those 100lb. dumbells.

Steve, my quote, "Life is full of challanges. How we choose to deal with these challanges defines us as a person. I will rise up and meet life's challanges head on. It's time to kick a$$"

mza8

[Steve McQueen]

I had so much confidence

had is the past tense, past participle of have


we are interested in a short-term solution-oriented approach think present.

[sandi2]

Don't play games with her. If she asks a question about business (selling the house, etc.) then answer that question and add nothing else. If you do not see the importance, ignore it. In case of the flowers, just a quick TM saying "It doesn't matter to me" and leave it at that. Don't sweat the small stuff.

I think you really need to GAL and find yourself as an individual. Become more interesting. Sounds as if you entire life has been consumed with your W and you lost your identity. I'm not saying that you should D, just saying to focus on yourself and start living instead of burrying yourself in the death of a M.

[sandi2]

I meant to ask you why you chose to get off the AD meds at this particular time. It seems that you would need the medication now until you were doing much better.

[mza8]

Sandi, couple reasons I chose to stop taking the meds. I found that it made me very tired. This began after I took the meds. It also made me feel sort of "numb" is the best way I can describe. I didn't like feeling that way. I didn't feel like I could think clearly sometimes. Right now I really need to be able to focus. Lastly, I'm not sure if I need the meds anymore anyway. It got me over he hump I think. With the cognitive behavior therapy and other techniques I have worked on with my IC, I am doing a much better job of recognizing certain behaviors of mine (depression, ocd and anxiety) and I'm able to manage them fairly well now. I'm keeping a close eye on my behavior now and if I start to backslide into the depression, ocd or anxiety, I will definitely go back on the meds. I did talk to my doctor and IC before making the decision and they said I can try it without the meds. We all agreed that I will go back on the meds if needed. I am feeling much better now. I don't feel so tired anymore and I feel lke I'm able to think more clearly again and focus. I'm concentrating everyday on using the CBT techniques from from IC to manage any depression or anxiety. So far it seems to be working. Other than not having my W with me, I feel ok.

Couple of things to update. I talked with my DB coach a couple of days ago. She really helps me put things in perspective. She said that she sees positive improvement with my W. She looked back on her notes and reminded me that only two months ago my W didn't want to meet with me face to face or call me on the phone...everything was email. Now my W is meeting with me face to face and she calls me. My DB coach said that since I'm living with this everyday that I might not be able to see all of the positives that have happened in two months. She also reminded me that two months ago my W would barely talk to me and not give me any personal information. Well, now she is talking to me and does share some personal info with me. My DB coach said that my W is beginning to feel more comfortable with me again. She said that my W is being friendly again and that's a good thing. She said that friendship needs to happen first. She asked me what my goals were for the next few weeks to a month. I said that it would be nice just to continue to build on the friendliness. I don't wwant to ask to much from W right now so I would continue to do the things that work and build on it. My DB coach thought this was a good idea. She said not to push, that W is just starting to be more comfortable with me. DB coach thought it was good when my W asked me about planting flowers in the front yard this week. She thought it is a good idea to continue to build the friendly interactions with my W and I. So that's what I'll do, just keep things light and simple.

I do have one question that I would like to know what you think. I mentioned that my W has been saying for a month now that she was getting her owm apartment but she has yet to do so. I bumped into someone last night who told me that my W recently moved back into her parent's house. She was living at her sister's house. When I asked my W last week if she was still living at her sister's house she said yes, she was. Clearly she lied to me. My question is how to handle this news. We are supposed to talk later today about the house. Do I call her out on this? My IC said that I should be more assertive with my W. Part of me wants to tell my W that I know she is living with her parent's and she lied to me last week. I also want to tell her that I want to see the bak statement that she moved our joint money into, to make sure it's all still there. I'm sure it it but I feel like making her do this for me to show me some trust. I am very happy to know that she is not living with her sister now. I'm also very happy that she is not getting her own apartment. This is typical for my W to tell me one thing and do another. My IC and I talked about many things my W has told me she was going to do after she left but hasn't gone through with yet. Anyway, I'm just happy she is back with her parents for now. So I'm not sure how to handle this news. Should I confront her or let it go for now? I'm not sure I even want to talk to her today. Might need a day to think about it. I want to tell her that I'm trying to trust her but her actions make it difficult and makes me wonder what else she is being dishonest about (reasons for selling the house, her responsibilities of paying part of the bills, etc.) Sandi, SteveM, Robx, what do you think? I don't want to hinder the progress (friendliness) that I seem to be making but I don't want to be lied to either.

It's difficult not to try to mind read things. At times my W shows signs of being more frendly and other times she is off in her own world. All part of the process I guess. Yesterday I emailed her to let her know that a friend of mine passed away and I was going to the viewing last night so I woulnd't be able to call her until today. I asked her if she wanted me to sign her name to the sympathy card. I was dissapointed that she never got back to me last night. This morning she emailed me and said that she was sorry to hear about my friend. She thought it was good that I went to the viewing. She never mentioned anything about the card. She said she would be around later today if I want to call her. The tone of the email was good but maybe i was looking for more. Anyway, the viewing was sad. It was good to go and pay my respects. My friend was only 33, he had cancer. It made me think how short life truly is and that I want to spend my life with my W and get past this.

So I don't know if I should call her today or wait a day. When I do call I'm not sure how to handle the news about her moving back with ther parents. In the meantime I have a busy weekend planned. I'm actually going out to do things for me. I'm taking a break this weekend on working on the house...I need it.

[gr8 day 2B alive]

mza8,

I took my lunch hour to read your sitch. I have noticed a few similarities with my sitch. Most folks here are dealing with cheating spouses. It appears you and me are alike in that we just have WAW. It doesn't make our work any easier though.

I noticed you keep thinking that if your W would just go to MC with you things would be OK. I would stop obsessing on that point. If and when she is ready let her be the one to decide.

I told my W if she would like to go to MC, she could pick the MC.
This way it is up to her to contact me when SHE makes the appointment.

I was struggling with anxiety for the past 5-7 years and it really destroyed my R. I handled it poorly also. My sleep patterns were a mess. I would drink a pot of coffee in the morning to get going then at night I would have a few beers to "relax". This only added problems, I was tense all the time.

Now that I switched to decaf coffee and drinking herbal teas at night, my sleep has been so much better.

Also in GALing, I am taking yoga and that helps even more.

Try to stop mind reading, it only works you up. Once you cen get to accepting either outcome of your R, you will be in a better place.

Go out with friends to take you mind off of things.

Sounds like you have that planned for the weekend so enjoy.

Do things for you now. Your happiness is the key for her see things are changing.
This is a very humbling experience. Be a happy generous person with everyone you meet.
She will find out through the grapevine that you are OK.

And don't think that if she sees you happy that it will make her say "I guess he's seems OK with the D".
Think - She will want to be with me b/c I am a happy person.
No one want to be around someone who is miserable.
good luck and stay focus.

[sandi2]

If I were you I would confirm that she has indeed moved back in with her parents and don't take it by word of mouth from somebody else. Not that anyone would intentionally lie, but people can misunderstand what they hear. So make sure before you talk with her.

I think a day to think it through might do you good if she's lied to you. But let me tell you how she probably sees this. She wants to be free, so she doesn't want you knowing every single move she makes and this is one of those things. Maybe there is more involed, IDK, but why would she not want you to know she was living with her parents? Unless it is b/c she could not afford an apartment and felt that you would try to get her to move back home since she couldn't make it on her own. I'm just guessing.

I do not think having joint accounts is a good thing when one S is wanting to D. You just told how she lies--but then said you didn't think she would do anything with the money. Never underestimate what a WAW will do. You need to have separate accounts and if you decide to do it, this might be a good time if you call her out about lying to you. That is the best reason for not having joint accounts.....mistrust. But you can ask your IC and see what she says.

Yesterday I emailed her to let her know that a friend of mine passed away and I was going to the viewing last night so I woulnd't be able to call her until today. I asked her if she wanted me to sign her name to the sympathy card. I was dissapointed that she never got back to me last night.

I know that things are more friendly now, and that is great, but let me warn you to be extremly careful about pressing her. You will find all kinds of excuses (even the death of a friend) which seems like a legitimate reason to contact her.....but your disappointment tells the story. Do you see what I mean? I know you can say you were disappointed that she didn't show more concern, etc., but the real reason is b/c she did not return your call. So you will be pressuring her if you are not very cautious. In a case like this, you could just "inform" her about the friend. But asking her if she wanted her name signed to the card with yours signified that you were still trying to tie the two of you together as a couple (pressure) and you used that to try to get her to respond (more pressure). We women can read you men better than you read yourselves sometimes.

I am glad that you are doing well without the AD medication. I use to be on some that made me feel the way you described, which is usually an indication it is not the right kind. If the therapy is working then that is certainly the way to go.

Don't let what I've said discourage you, okay? I don't want to do that.....I just want to help fine tune a few things that might be harder for you to see since you're in the stitch.

[gr8 day 2B alive]

I know that things are more friendly now, and that is great, but let me warn you to be extremly careful about pressing her. You will find all kinds of excuses (even the death of a friend) which seems like a legitimate reason to contact her.....but your disappointment tells the story. Do you see what I mean? I know you can say you were disappointed that she didn't show more concern, etc., but the real reason is b/c she did not return your call. So you will be pressuring her if you are not very cautious. In a case like this, you could just "inform" her about the friend. But asking her if she wanted her name signed to the card with yours signified that you were still trying to tie the two of you together as a couple (pressure) and you used that to try to get her to respond (more pressure). We women can read you men better than you read yourselves sometimes.

I am glad that you are doing well without the AD medication. I use to be on some that made me feel the way you described, which is usually an indication it is not the right kind. If the therapy is working then that is certainly the way to go.

Don't let what I've said discourage you, okay? I don't want to do that.....I just want to help fine tune a few things that might be harder for you to see since you're in the stitch.

I completely agree with you Sandi this is showing neediness.

mza8, you are looking for igns from her that what give you hope. I did the same thing,analyzing her actions and why she's doing what's she's doing. You'll drive yourself crazy.

It appears to me that you are deathy afraid of losing her, I completely understand this too.
Conquer your fear of this and will will have much more success.
She can see this.
Know the difference between a need and a want.

Be focused.

[dburt]

Great advice Sandi, from someone on the otherside the advice is golden.

Going to call the wife here in a minute to see if she would like to join me at 6pm to eat at the place where I meet my friends Friday afternoons for Happy Hour. Just one example of how I have changed for the better in handling my life. Would have just come home and opened a can of beer and sat on the couch back prebomb. Good things can come out of these life changing experiences.

Burt

[mza8]

gr8 and Sandi, thank you. Wow gr8, thanks for checking in on me during your lunch break. I've been following your sitch too but haven't posted in your thread. It does seem like our sitchs are similar as our wives aren't in an A. You're right that it doesn't make it any easier.

I didn't realize that I had issues of anxiety and depression until my IC diagnosed it within the past few months. I guess I thought I was just stressed and that was the reasons why I was acting the way I was for the past couple of years. I should have listened to my W and talked with a C and seen a doctor to help me. Like a lot of people I didn't think there was anything wrong with me. I thought that I was strong enough just to take care of everything myself. Perhaps I saw it as a sign of weakness to admit that I might need to see a C. For whatever reason I didn't go to C until my W left. It has been an eye opening experience to say the least. I have learned a lot about myself. I like many things about myself but I know I need to improve in other areas and that's what I'm working on now. I am a better man now and continue to improve myself.

Other than not being with my W right now, I am fairly happy under the circumstances. I am always cheerful in front of people. When I told a few of my friends lately what had happened, they were stunned. They said they never would have guessed anything was wrong based on how happy I seem. I'm not curled up on the couch feeling depressed for myself like I was in the past. I am doing things for myself and GAL. For me though, it is so difficult not to have my W with me as I love this woman so much. I told my IC that in some ways both my W and I have a lot of maturing to do. I need to be more responsible and my W needs to be better communicating her feelings to me.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I wish you the best with your sitch too.

Sandi, I agree that I need a day to think it through although I really don't want to call her over the weekend as that's my time for me, however I think waiting until Monday is too long. The person I ran into last night was her parent's neighbor. They said they helped her move from her sister's house into her parent's house. So I'm pretty sure she is in the parent's house now. I can see your point how she might see it if she told me. What bothers me about that though is how upset she was when I didn't tell her where I was not living. She was so upset and wanted me to tell her. I took your advice and instead of playing games, I told her where I was living. I feel like if I was being honest with her then she should be honest with me. I have been thinking that I might mmove back to the house soon myself. If she doesn't want to take my offer to live there than I might move back. I don't want to sell it anyway. She knows this and I don't bring it up anymore.

We do have separate accounts now. A couple of months ago she took money from our joint account we were using to pay joint bills and put it in a new account in her name only. I am thinking to telling her that I want to see a bank statement so I know that the money is still in that account. I'm sure it is and she has been paying the joint bills so I don't know if I should go there asking about the account. As long as she continues to pay the joint bills with that joint money than I'm ok with that.

Regarding the sympathy card. I really went back and forth with that one. I decided that if it was one of her friends, I would want to know and probably like my name added to the card. I was just trying to extend that courtesy to my W. Like I said, I realy wasn't sure of the right thing to do in that situation. One of the things I continue to struggle with is what is important to contact her about. I don't want to do anything that might even remotely be seen as pressuring her. Sometimes it hard to make all of the right moves. Before I make a decision I try to see it through her eyes and how it might make her feel or respond. I am trying to only contact her about the house when absolutely necessary.

Sandi, you aren't discouraging at all. You give me encouragement. I always look forward to reading your advice. Sometimes I can't always see the right thing to do since I'm in this sitch so it is so helpful to me to have others give me insight on what they see. Really gets me thinking and keeps me on track. I want to continue to fine tune what I am doing. I want to do what is best for my W and I.