I agree with much that has been posted. I do want to point out that I agree that any choice in life is up to the individual. If someone wanted to dump ashes on their head and wear a sackcloth the rest of their life, it would be up to them. What I want to explore is when is it not a good choice to stand. People make their own choices, but it doesn't mean its right or good. We have all kinds of standers here, newbies trying to get a handle on everything, intermediaries who are waiting for the MLC to end, long term standers who are really stuck in life, and closet standers who profess to be making changes, but really haven't. I understand the need to stand, but why continue if after years, nothing has changed? Why continue if you are divorced and the MLCer has remarried? Unfortunately many stand to be martyr's, problem with that is, unless you are being a martyr for a worthwhile cause, no one really cares. I believe that many folks have such low self esteem that they really feel like they cannot be with anyone else. I'm not making fun of anyone by making that statement, on the contrary, I would love to see them get some help for themselves.