Naej, I can understand how you would have difficulty reading my emotions in my writing. I don't write about my feelings. I write more as a journalist or essayist rather than a poet. However, writing is expressive for me and is helpful, and I continue to write most days. My speaking is even less expressive, unless I'm with someone I'm comfortable with. I'm open with others about most things in my life except my M. That is a secret I keep to myself and this board.
My W is probably looking for me to be more expressive verbally and physically. When I was in therapy, I read from my journals to the therapist.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
CL, I can relate to this totally. And I understand what you meant by the other woman being “Forward” There is different ways of asking the same question and you have to be there to understand the tone. As for being reluctant to admit she was your wife? I have been there also. Now speaking for me. Part of that reluctance was because my wife did not act like my wife but also I had reservations about possibly blowing any opportunities of meeting another woman. Now do not get me wrong... I have never cheated on my wife but when you are in that “Limbo” you want to keep some doors open.
My W has resumed her spending the night with her dance friend, at a pace of about weekly. She is transparent about where she is going, and who she is with. It is frustrating to me, given the increased connection these past several months.
Whenever I post about this behavior, I get a response advocating a zero tolerance approach, and that I should "drop the atom bomb" on the M, and give her an ultimatum. It's easy advice to give, when I'm the one who has to unbalance my life.
I also understand what you are saying here. I don’t think I could do what you are doing but in reality nobody here could say what they would do unless it was happening to them. I always said “I would kick my wife out in the street if I EVER caught her cheating on me” That was until it happened... Now here I am 3 years later You are the one that has to live with your decisions. But sometimes buddy you do need to sit back and look at what you want and what you have... And are you happy...
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Doc, I'm at a loss of what to do. My situation is confusing. I don't know if things are improving, or not. I don't know if my efforts are helping the R, myself, or both. My W's actions are communicating something, but I don't know what.
I think I'll sleep in the guest room tonight. I've committed to the Hustle Formation team, so I'll see it through. I'll do it for me, even though I did it for my W.
I'm glad I'm back in church and reading religious authors, as I need something to keep myself grounded, so I can keep a pure heart and clear head during this phase. A pure heart and clear head are what's most important, always.
I'm disappointed that the R isn't in a better place.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Doc, Naej, I'm going to write in my journal this morning, and try to sort things out. I need to do something different, that will move things forward, yet hold onto the positives. I feel like I need to be a skillful surgeon, trying to remove disease from an intact body, without doing harm to what's working well.
I need to keep a clear head and pure heart. My actions and words must be chosen carefully. My focus needs to be on the R, and not her friend.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Dear CL, it is obvious that we are polar opposites and I hesitate to make suggestions but I do feel that your wife is goading you and willing you to show some emotion to your situation. As a woman I would see your inaction and carefully chosen and well thought out words and actions to show a lack of passion/ love for our marriage or me, totally passive-aggressive,given what I was doing. Maybe a 180 for you would be to show some anger (righteous indignation) words spoke straight from the heart having bypassed the brain and all the annalitcal(sp) thinking. I feel you are such a gentle man,who will avoid conflict at any price and you are loyal to a fault. Sometimes a woman needs a man with a capital M, I think this is what your wife wants from you. Now is maybe the time for less thinking and more alpha male action. It has been too long and this is a marriage of convenience not a marriage of two hearts. You come across again apologies if I am wrong as self sufficient with little room for a wife or love or passion. Like your dancing,you master and perfect the steps and routine with a compelling dedication but what is your facial expression telling your partner. Dancing is not just steps it is feeling an outward display of the moods and passions in your soul. I do believe you love your wife in your own way but she needs to feel that. Good luck.
CL, I wish I had all the answers and could tell you what you need to do. But alas I don't. Even as positive I see my sitch is going. It is still fragile and I too have that feeling that I may do something and loose all of the ground gained this last year. This board is not the medium you and I need to work this out. Meeting at a pub over a beer I think you and I would have a better chance. Two things that naej said... (And I finely figured out she was a woman) was... Like your dancing, you master and perfect the steps and routine with a compelling dedication but what is your facial expression telling your partner. Dancing is not just steps it is feeling an outward display of the moods and passions in your soul.
This is your strong point. Maybe if you try to think of your R as one of your dance venues will help.
The other thing she said and I have heard this before. Is that Alpha Male thing. If we sit back and look at the ‘men’ and I use that word loosely that our wives chose. They are uncaring of others, they are / were A## holes that treated our wives as objects not persons. They treated us with total dis respect. I think both you and I have a problem with this because we are “good guys” I guess sometimes just maybe you and I need to become Alpha male A## holes to keep our wives.
And if I claim to be a wise man, well It surely means that I don't know
Naej, Thanks for holding a mirror up to me, and telling me what you see. I don't think it's an accident that dancing is my hobby. It's a means for me to grow in the ways I need to grow--being more expressive, connecting with people, being more comfortable in my body and integrating feelings into my life.
I am a feeling, sensitive person, but the problem is I've been too private about it. One can't be that private with one's spouse.
My W is proud of me for joining the Hustle Formation group. I can't believe I'm in front of a mirror doing John Travolta type moves. I would not have chosen the Hustle, but now that I'm there, am thinking it's a good choice.
I've watched Saturday Night Fever with John Travolta, and watched him dance. Although I don't want to be an adolescent with an attitude, I do need to work on conveying confidence and presence on the dance floor.
Our dance teacher told us that we need to have an internal secret that we're trying to convey to our partner or the audience. My W's secret is "I'm hot and I know it." I'm not sure what mine is yet.
It's painful to hear you call my M one of convenience or that I have no room in my life for my W. I'm not sure what to do with those comments.
I agree that I need to work on being more expressive and honest in the R, more willing to move into conflict, and being assertive when I think I'm being mistreated.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Doc, I feel like I'm in a virtual bar with you, so again will click my glass with yours. It's helpful to be validated from another guy's perspective. Naej and other woman who post to me help me to understand how my actions would affect a woman.
This dance guy my W hangs around with is a jerk. I think any respectful man knowing that my W is in relationship with would not allow a married woman to spent the night with him, whether it's platonic or not. My W tried to soften things up last year, and tried to get me to feel sympathy for him because of his marital and financial troubles. I'm losing my patience with him, and have visions of giving him a sock to the jaw (not planning on it). I notice he avoids me, and is careful to stay away from me when he's at my home to pick up my W.
It's not time to throw in the towel but the game is moving into the later innings. I thought I had gotten back in the game, but I've fallen behind again. I'm like a player who was sent back to the minors to work on marriage skills (dancing, expression, confidence, connection) needed to get me to the big leagues. It's time to put me in the game and see how I do. I'm a baseball fan, as you can see.
You're right, being a good guy isn't enough. It's better to work on this (assertiveness, confidence, expressiveness) while I'm still married. These problems would follow me to another R. I need to keep the focus on what I need to do to improve myself as a person and H, with the hopes that it will impact the M.
My W has seen signs of change. It's time to make some more small changes that will have an impact. I need to stop coasting in old patterns.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Concerned, I am so pleased you took my comments in the way they were intended. I worry that I may be too blunt for you. I too was a amazed you are learning the Hustle. How about your secret being, I'm hot too so come girls join the queue" ! I wonder what it was / is that made you such a private person? to the point of it impacting so much on your life. Only child, older parents, strong mother, extremely shy, I could guess away but we must look to the future and I have a feeling that if we scratched the surface enough and dug really deep you could be one passionate guy, you just need a good woman. Throw caution to the wind (what have you got to loose-no really I mean it) and really believe in yourself that you are a hot male.Develop that swagger not in a cocky way but in a confident way,nothing appeals to a woman more than confidence. I think a night on the town with Dr. Love would do you both good. You still got your dog? You ever had a massage or tried yoga/ meditation or the like?
Naej, I do think of myself as handsome, but not hot. I can tell some lady's are attracted to me when we dance. I've been thinking of a secret message for the Hustle dance. I'll keep working on it. It's probably very important that I come up with something I can believe in. I want to show people that I can loosen-up, and show confidence on the dance floor as a performer.
I have a massage therapy session scheduled today, so it's funny you mentioned it. It will be my first one in years.
My dog is almost two years old. He is a joy. My W has gotten closer to him.
I do yoga before work most days. I've been trying Centering prayer.
I have my Hustle Formation class tonight. I'm looking forward to it. I'll try to get into the spirit of the dance more.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
