WAW Using God II

[pigskin]

We talked about her email from last night today.

She definitely is taking responsibility; she knows she is doing wrong. There is no denial on her part.

One alarming thing she said before we got into the discussion was that she thought Satan may be speaking through me in order to keep her from joining God through baptism. This was BEFORE I explained to her that I did NOT think she was not ready. Note she said she didn't think I was evil, just that he may have worked through my words. Somehow I kept from falling to the floor. But I have to keep it in perspective, my W has said she feels like she's drinking from a fire hose with all the information on Christianity she's trying to process.

Luckily we got that ironed out with a brief discussion of how I felt. She said it made her feel a lot better. She seemed to confirm that she is giving herself to God through the baptism so that He can help her. I told her if that is true then I can support it wholeheartedly.

She also gave me a bible passage she read dealing with struggling with sin.

So for a woman who has "made up her mind" she's still being thrashed about by God. I think she reaches for Him with one hand and pushes Him away with the other...

[MrBond]

"One alarming thing she said before we got into the discussion was that she thought Satan may be speaking through me in order to keep her from joining God through baptism."

Again, no accountability. She's saying that she felt uncomfortable with you so Satan must have been speaking through you.

What a joke. It's called guilt. Deal with it.

I really don't see God as being the issue here. He gives us water but doesn't make us drink it. That's up to us. Free will. She used her free will to mess around with another man. End of story. She should take ownership of it and not think "well God must be doing all this". No dear, you did.

Amazing what some WAS's will say. My W once threatened to call the cops on me because I made her feel "afraid". Then later that same day, she said she was staying over with me overnight because her sister's place was being worked on. Guess her being afraid didn't last very long.

Let's face it. Do you think she told the OM that she felt uncomfortable with him being there because "Satan" was making him tempt her? Of course not. She probably told him how she wanted him there because "God" would want that so she could see the right path. Pardon me while I throw up.

Personal responsibility. She hasn't accepted it yet.

[knittedscarff]

So she found God, right? Or God found her? Or they had a fender bender and ran into each other? I'm not one who would be able to deal with a spouse using God as an excuse to lie and cheat, but hey, some of the biggest hypocrites and liars I know throw the God-card around to shift blame for their faults.

Just keep this in mind. You know who else is likely to find God when times get tough.

Prisoners.

If she really found God, she's be living the example, not all the mumbo-jumbo whatever of Satan coming through your words or the firehose of God spraying all over her. Which, by the way, don't you think that God would be able to put out a fire with a hose, being that he's God and all?

I was baptized Catholic and still identify with the faith, but most of my experiences with higher powers were with the Jewish community, almost all of my friends and schoolmates were Jewish, and the learned way of thinking they instilled in me lasts to this very day. I think this parable might help.

Get your wife out from under the table. She's not a rooster.

http://branemrys.blogspot.com/2007/05/jewish-parable.html

One more note: It's only evangelical Christians that seem to be so hung up on the powers of Satan. For Catholics, and from my understanding of Jewish traditions, Satan, fuggedaboutit. He ain't no big thang. Satan can't influence anyone. He can tempt, but it is ultimately the individual's choice to act on it. It's not within his power to make someone do anything ...like INVADE your words <spooooooky music>

But back to the advice. Your wife is not a rooster. Make sure she understands that. It would probably help you repair your marriage.

PS: If the Rooster Prince story doesn't make sense, here's a wiki entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rooster_Prince

[knittedscarff]

She came to me once and said that God told her to leave me and the marriage.

Right.

Ok, then ask her: how did God tell you leave the marriage. And she'll give some stupid answer.

Then either the same day or the next day or next week, ask her the same question.

I'm betting it won't be the same answer. The words will not be exact.

Then you have to think, well, if God talked to you -you know how God loves using up those rollover minutes on his IPhone (don't you think that he deserves a capital I?) - wouldn't you remember it.

Dude, your wife is lying to you about religion so she can hook up with another man.

Is God close to you and your wife? Well, if God is love, she'd be loving you by being honest, she'd be loving herself by being honest - OM didn't know she was married...what she forgot to tell him? The OM loves a liar (don't they all?) None of that seems like love. Being kind and gentle and honest is loving. Telling your spouse that Satan might be in your words. Red flag: not loving.

Seems like God is waiting for a little love so he can show up.

Why don't you let him?

[idontunderstand]

I know you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but it sure does sound like she's using God to justify what she is doing to you and your family. Anyone can use God or faith in God to try and justify their actions. It doesn't mean it is a real and true faith or even search for faith. I hope she really is searching because, if she is listening to Him, she will know what she is doing is wrong. I hope that is the case. Continue to pray for her and for strength for yourself.

"...Thy will be done."

[25yearsmlc]

another gross possibility is that, like one serial killer did (NO, I'm not saying she's the moral equivalent but there IS an analogy here) --he'd murder and go to confession to "wipe the slate clean" and then, oops, he'd get that itchy feeling again. And he'd kill again. Good thing he could ALWAYS count on forgiveness soooo he'd do it again.

Look, the thing is, "Sin no more" is a tough thing to live by, but it's in there. And she's using God as an excuse to "prove" to her that her gushy feelings for the adultering man, must be "good", and therefore from God...

Has she ever heard of temptation? The reason it's tempting is b/c it has APPEAL and FEELS GOOD... She's confusing it with God's word, and IF Satan were speaking to her, it would NOT be the voice that says "Go back to your family AND the vows you made in MY HOUSE"....nope, it'd be the other voice saying "Do what you think feels good....no matter who it hurts...."

I think your perspective is very good, and I would NOT try to shut down thoughts of other women in the generalized sense. But yeah, dating is another matter --I don't oppose it but I do think your kids have to be insulated. They need to know there's ONE parent putting them first.
Also, I'd have a hard time dunking her. Is she wanting that so that she can pretend all is well with you two, OR she wants permission, OR b/c she's testing you, or testing her feelings or what?? I don't get it.
I'd ask her what she expects from you. She said she understands your mixed feelings and that was telling. At some level, she knows you have been hurt. While you want to be strong, don't let her off the hook so much b/c she only wants the self serving parts of religion and not the tough stuff. Does she think it'll magically make her disciplined by getting baptized? (Hey, who am I to say it's impossible? I'm not really in a position to say, but still, I wonder.)

j-

[pigskin]

another gross possibility is that, like one serial killer did (NO, I'm not saying she's the moral equivalent but there IS an analogy here) --he'd murder and go to confession to "wipe the slate clean" and then, oops, he'd get that itchy feeling again. And he'd kill again. Good thing he could ALWAYS count on forgiveness soooo he'd do it again.

No, based on conversations with her, I know she's not trying to just play a stack of "Get Out of Jail Free" cards.

Look, the thing is, "Sin no more" is a tough thing to live by, but it's in there. And she's using God as an excuse to "prove" to her that her gushy feelings for the adultering man, must be "good", and therefore from God...

Has she ever heard of temptation? The reason it's tempting is b/c it has APPEAL and FEELS GOOD... She's confusing it with God's word, and IF Satan were speaking to her, it would NOT be the voice that says "Go back to your family AND the vows you made in MY HOUSE"....nope, it'd be the other voice saying "Do what you think feels good....no matter who it hurts...."

At the very start of our sitch, I think this was exactly why she was so confused. She gave in to temptation, it felt more right than anything ever in her life, so she thought it was God telling her to move on. She knows now that what she did was a sin; she does not deny that at all.

Keep in mind that my wife was a very moral woman, but had just about zero exposure to any kind of religion other than tagging along with me to mass, and then she'd only come on the big holidays like Christmas and Easter. She didn't even know the fundamental difference between Jews and Christians. She is a complete novice with regard to faith.

[/b] Also, I'd have a hard time dunking her. Is she wanting that so that she can pretend all is well with you two, OR she wants permission, OR b/c she's testing you, or testing her feelings or what?? I don't get it.
I'd ask her what she expects from you. She said she understands your mixed feelings and that was telling. At some level, she knows you have been hurt. While you want to be strong, don't let her off the hook so much b/c she only wants the self serving parts of religion and not the tough stuff. Does she think it'll magically make her disciplined by getting baptized? (Hey, who am I to say it's impossible? I'm not really in a position to say, but still, I wonder.)
j-

She hasn't yet asked me to dunk her, only said she considered it. She thinks it would be "meaningful to both of us". If she asks, I'm going to ask her why she wants me to do it, because really I'm totally surprised she would even consider it if she is so bent on breaking off our relationship. But I'm sure she still wants to be "friends" to ease her guilt.

I don't know if she thinks a miracle will happen with her baptism. She was looking for a "burning bush" when we went to Retrouvaille, and when she didn't get it she felt even more that we were not meant to be.

I get the feeling that she knows she is committing a horrible sin so she is trying to give herself to God so he can help her break the affair, restore the family, rebuild her marriage, and be in love with her husband again. Now that was not a quote from her, and I don't ask since I've vowed not to mess with what God is doing with her, but it is a sense I have. But I am not banking on it, and it wouldn't surprise me if she said she's doing it to make sure she doesn't cheat on the OM after they are married.

[pigskin]

Journaling:

Yesterday interactions with W were so pleasant it was almost like we were a couple again.

She had given me some bible verses she said were meaningful to her, and came over to discuss them. So we had our first ever "bible study" together.

Then I helped her move some stuff to her apartment. As I left she was in a playful, joking mood and played a prank on me. (Although while in her bathroom I noticed a can of men's shave cream in the tub. I've never seen her use shave cream to shave her legs before, she always just used soap, so I don't know what to take from that. It irritated me but to be honest I have no idea if women use men's shave gel or not. I let it go and said nothing. It's none of my business anyway. There was no other possible OM evidence, like a man's razor or extra toothbrush.)

Later in the day she brought the kids to see me downtown as she was running an errand, again in a very happy, playful mood.

I won't take much from this, but it's better than gloom and doom. Sitting with her discussing bible passages HAS to be a good thing for our relationship. Theological discussions before always ended up with us getting in a debate that I always would win, and it irritated her and made her shut down. Now I'm not doing anything but listening to her interpretation and giving her mine.

[idontunderstand]

Just checking in, Pigskin.

Hang in there, sounds like you're in a pretty good place.

[25yearsmlc]

Don't know what to tell you except YES, we women do use shaving cream and though I prefer a woman's scented one, I have purchased and used men's. Mostly my h's b/c it's cheap and works. If it was on her BATH tub, ignore it. Really. You SO have weirder things to figure out.

Good luck, I'm lurking but waiting for a brilliant insight and until I have one, I'm just lurking some more.
j-