Kalni, that sounds like good advice, I know I could use some of it. There's always that fear of crossing that fine line between "I'm doing just fine without you" and "I don't care about you, like you already think". Finding that balance is hard and even I struggle with it.
Me: 35|WAW: 38|D: 6yo | http://tinyurl.com/2dxx7m6 Feb 2006, left, came back in two weeks Aug 2006, left again Apr 2007, filed for divorce Dec 2007, reunited Mar 2010, moved out, filed again
I always told my husband. I will be fine without you, but I prefer to be with you and love you. You know where I stand the choice is yours.
M38, H37 S3, S7 Together 15 yrs Married 8 yrs Bomb July 2008 Inhouse separation "I hate you" "We are over" (too many times to count) Reconciled Sept 2009 (still worth it)
Analogy that helped me. Marriage is like two trees growing side by side, independent of each other but their branches are intertwined. They sway with the wind together and go thru the seasons together. One tree might lose a limb or get struck by lightning. One tree is not dependent on the other. They each are capable of standing on their own.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
So there's been a bizarre development regarding Mr Super Expensive IC. I picked him because of MWD's endorsement on his web site, and my DB coach also spoke highly of him last time I talked to her. I did find his therapeutic approach helpful for me. There were a few things that I noticed that seemed a bit "off", but I don't expect therapists to be perfect in order to help me.
Anyway, my sister wanted some help with a M issue and took my suggestion to see him. She saw him alone at first, and was a bit put off by him, but decided to go ahead and bring her husband in.
It was a total disaster. My IC basically immediately launched into an attack on BIL and it turned into some weird attempt on the IC's part to bully and dominate BIL. It almost turned into a physical confrontation, in spite of both my sister and BIL attempting to reduce the intensity of the session and get the IC to back off.
I can only assume that my IC was having some sort of alcohol- or drug-related issue because I cannot explain his behaviour as any sort of therapeutic approach. He's too experienced for that. My sister and BIL are feeling violated, and it's a setback for them in resolving their issue. They're going to write a letter to the association that my IC is part of, and I certainly won't be going back to him. My sister has spent years in counselling so I think she has a good baseline for what to expect from a therapist. I will be contacting MWD about this. Of course I feel terrible for suggesting him to my sister in the first place.
Why is it so hard to find a good MC? It's so easy for an MC to seem helpful, but by the time you realize that there's a problem, it's too late and the damage is done. The MC that I picked for H and I was based on a personal recommendation, but she certainly wasn't equipped for our sitch.
Last edited by flowmom; 03/24/1004:00 PM.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
Analogy that helped me. Marriage is like two trees growing side by side, independent of each other but their branches are intertwined. They sway with the wind together and go thru the seasons together. One tree might lose a limb or get struck by lightning. One tree is not dependent on the other. They each are capable of standing on their own.
I can relate to that analogy, and for the 11 years before kids that did characterize our R.
The "I love you but I don't need you" quotation doesn't click with me though. I haven't relied on my H as a wife for many years, but there are needs that in our society are not easily met outside of an intimate relationship: sex, affection, intimate conversation, certain kinds of companionship, easily togetherness within one's home, etc.
Coach, can you really say that you don't need your W? Don't you have those needs? And doesn't your W provide them? You might not be dependent on her, and you might be standing tall as a tree, but denying that our intimate partner meets certain needs in ways that others don't isn't realistic IMO. That's why it's called an A when a spouse gets M needs met outside of M, even if the two people have never even met.
Your quotation applies more to friendships than to marriage. I need my friends collectively, but I don't really need individual friends. My friendship needs can be met by many people.
And the tree analogy doesn't capture is the interdependence that comes with parenthood. With the arrival of a baby there were sudden shifts in our roles. No one else could be a mother to our children. No one else could be a father to our children. As a family unit we are interdependent, and always will be to some extent. I will always rely on H to be a father to my children, and if he dies or doesn't fulfil that role I will have no way of making that OK for my children.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
Kalni, thank you very much for your post. I am going to think very carefully about what you've written. I think that Gnosis has given me some very useful suggestions, but timing is everything and I need to be sure that the timing is right for making small shifts.
I'm not really sure why I'm giving the impression in my thread that I'm not working on myself?? I feel like I am focusing on my own practical and emotional issues a LOT so there is a disconnect between my perception and the feedback that I'm getting here.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
Coach, can you really say that you don't need your W? Don't you have those needs? And doesn't your W provide them?
Yes, I don't need her to be me.
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sex, affection, intimate conversation, certain kinds of companionship, easily togetherness within one's home, etc.
These are wants. Someone who is single is not complete? A widow/widower is less of a person?
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No one else could be a mother to our children.
We adopted our daughter and are every bit her parents. Doesn't diminish her birth mother.
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I will always rely on H to be a father to my children, and if he dies or doesn't fulfil that role I will have no way of making that OK for my children.
It's not your job to make things OK for other people.
When you start depending on other people for needs that are your responsibility then the relationship becomes unhealthy.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
K, you always provide good advice and I'm not going to argue with you. LOL.
OK, let me explain WHY I'm telling Flo to be a little more transparent. This is specific advice for her because of her circumstances.
From a man's point of view - Under these circumstances: If I am taking the kids off your hands and trying to free up your time so that you can get some work done to help us out of the tough financial situation we're in... How do you think I'm going to react or feel if I perceive you are taking that time to get dressed up and go out to have fun instead? I would be angry. I would be resentful. With that anger and resentment I could justify to myself why I'm walking away. "See! This proves it! She is just as selfish and manipulative as I always though! I'm here busting my butt to get a handle of the financial mess we're in... and what does she do? She dumps the kids so she can go out and enjoy herself. To hell with that!"
Is it wrong? Perhaps... Is this mind reading? Yes.
All of this depends on CIRCUMSTANCES. You can be both mysterious and open. Her H has an irregular schedule. He has his job and he is doing a part-time business. It comes down to timing. There is a time where it is GOOD to be mysterious and a time where it is detrimental.
Flo knows this and this is all I pointed out to her. She is a discerning and wise woman. ALMOST as wise as you Kalni
Now before I "talk" myself into a hole... all I'm saying is be a little more open when "mystery" could create resentment and anger instead of curiosity.
From a man's point of view - Under these circumstances: If I am taking the kids off your hands and trying to free up your time
See, what I am confused about is this. Flo's H seems to be working towards a place of joint custody (two bedroom apartment, extended overnights) and that is much different than "taking the kids off your hands to free up time". What Flo does when her H has the children is none of his business. Nobody has really expanded upon the fact that Flo cares for the children, home schools and tries to work except for the days her H has the children. I don't know, this doesn't sit right with me. Her days w/o the children are hers to do what she wants with... be it work, go out, sleep or whatever IMO.
so that you can get some work done to help us out of the tough financial situation we're in... How do you think I'm going to react or feel if I perceive you are taking that time to get dressed up and go out to have fun instead? I would be angry. I would be resentful. With that anger and resentment I could justify to myself why I'm walking away. "See! This proves it! She is just as selfish and manipulative as I always though! I'm here busting my butt to get a handle of the financial mess we're in... and what does she do? She dumps the kids so she can go out and enjoy herself. To hell with that!"
Didn't Flo say that her H was providing restaurant meals for the children quite frequently? The only reason Flo seemed resentful of that was because the children didn't want "home" food NOT because of the spending. Restaurant food is expensive and if he cut that out then maybe he could put more towards debt. But Flo can't tell him that nor should she and vice versa.
She is not dumping the kids. A pattern is being set for joint custody as per her H's request to have more/equal time with the children.
I don't know... maybe I am missing the main point but this all feels very strange to me.
No... it is ME who is missing a lot. I told Flo that I was not clued up on her sitch and to follow what you guys who are "in the thick" of things and up to speed on everything more than my limited knowledge.
I'm only offering an alternative view of things as an "outsider". My thoughts on this are restricted to my limited knowledge. If it doesn't gel with all that's been happening, throw it out on the trash where it belongs. I'm not claiming to be right and I also screw up.
