She Say's She Want's Out Of The Marriage

[steady]

bart, that response was fine. Don't take any of what she wrote as meaning anything. One thing you could have added was you understand that she is angry and you understand why she is very angry. That's validating.

I think the best time to address those issues is after a cooling off period for the both of you. To go head first into them as soon as you get home in my opinion would be a mistake. Don't initiate it. If she does, just validate her feelings.

One other thing...don't go into a list of the things you know you've done wrong. Just address the issues she brings up. For every thing you bring up you will be bringing them back up in her mind. You might also add things she isn't even thinking about and that will add more fuel to the fire.

Don't talk about your changes. That will backfire. Just keep doing the positive things and she will see the changes. Believe me, her eyes are on you right now. Don't tell her, show her.

The hardest thing you're going to have to do is to act as if you are detached and ok with the whole thing.

Don't try to convince her of anything. Stay away from your urge to defend or explain yourself. Never mind trying to point out any of her flaws.

My opinion, and you'll find this hard to see, is the physical separation will be good for both of you.

Remember - DO NOT PURSUE. She can't chase someone who isn't moving away or at least not following her.

You need to dig deep for what you need to do. I'm sure you've dug deep many times before. Find it inside yourself and do it. There is no maybe, I'll try or I can't....there's only DO.

[robx]

My w just sent me another email. my best friend had called and spoke to her last week. She emailed me this:

Look. I know that you have spoken to friend and he has probably told you a lot of his opinion of how the conversation went. One thing is for certain that he said. I am angry. I have been angry for a long time. We have a lot of issues that have to be addressed. I don't know when a good time to address those issues will be. I do know that I am very unhappy and have been for a while. I am unhappy with myself and with you.

This was my response:

friend has said very little to me, nor have I asked. That conversation was between you and him, it wasn't for me I understand how you feel. We will address those issues when we are ready to do so. You have my full cooperation on anything and everything.

How was my response? Do you think the reality of me coming home is starting to hit her?

that last line was a little much but I liked the overall tone of your message, you were direct, didn't back down, instead of saying "I understand how you feel" because honestly you don't, you can say "I understand that this might make you feel uncomfortable". I liked the part that you told her that you would address the issues when you're ready - you weren't pushing for a discussion as soon as you got off the plane, you weren't sucking up to her, you were being direct and saying it like it is and that they need to be discussed.

So far so good.

[tbart01]

Sounds like I'm starting to understand. I just need to stay on the right track. She hadn't said much to me in quite some time, so this email came out of the blue. It made me realize that she now sees I'm going to come home.

Once we do have the convo I have all kinds of answers running through my head, some right and some wrong. I would never bring up anything to give her additional ammo, but do I say I'm angry and unhappy about these things to. I realize these things and that's why I'm making sure hey don't happen again in any relationship. You see where I'm trying to go with this? Not sure which direction to go.

[tbart01]

I guess what i'm trying to ask is when I get home and we finally have this converstation, how do I respond? She's going to rain down fire and I'm going to validate. Where do I go with the rest of the convesation? I have my own complaints and hurts that have surfaced since this started, but I will not do there or bring that stuff up.

I can't just validate what she says and leave it at that. Don't I have to have a moving forward from the validation point? I will not argue or be defensive about anything, but I have to say something about something don't I?

[steady]

tbart you bring a really interesting point. Sometimes I wish I had stood up more and called her on some of her B.S. But then I look and see she actually buys her twisting and embellishing of the truth as being reality - so I would have just knocked her further back in or would I have? I can't answer this question.

In the beginning of my sitch I would have just said validate and don't push back. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe peace2u will chime in and give you her perspective.

I can't just validate what she says and leave it at that. Don't I have to have a moving forward from the validation point? I will not argue or be defensive about anything, but I have to say something about something don't I?

Sure you can just validate and leave it at that. It's not up to you to move it forward at this point. Do you think she wants to move it forward in the same direction that you consider forward? I imagine she may rain down on you, but then what? What could she possibly do after that? Either she will leave everything neutral, move toward separation or move toward reconciliation. What other choices are there?

[tbart01]

Those are all valid points steady, but I guess i don't to validate and just let her think she's right and I'm moving on. I guess that's the whole point of what I am supposed to do, but I'm also taking action to better myself and make sure I don't make the same mistakes in this relationship or future relationships.

You know as well as I do that this is touchy. She views me as weak, unable to stand on my own two feet, controlling, jealous, and clingy. Moving on would definitely show change in me, and it would show myself that I can do these things. The controlling has to do with my jealousy because she feels she hasn't been able to do certain things.

I just don't want to come off as weak little pansey. At the same time I don't want to be defensive and confrontational because that's how I would have acted in the past.

[steady]

Yes it is touchy I think.

For some reason I just had the thought. I wish I had said this to my W in the beginning:

"You know, I understand you're very angry and confused. We both made mistakes in this marriage and that put us in the position we are in now. I'm taking responsibility for the mistakes I've made and am working very hard at becoming the man I really wanted to be - not the man I ended up being.

I know you need time and space to think about what you want to do. I know I don't want a divorce and I prefer we work through our issues and build a fantastic relationship.

While you take the time and space you need to decide, I will be moving forward improving myself and my life. Now if you'd excuse me, I have a life to live."

And then leave it at that. I would have allowed her to tell me all her complaints one time without me walking away - not over and over and over again. (I'd have to think about this one)

The point is, I wish I had:

1. Agreed I had mistakes and included her in the mistake making by using the word we in we made mistakes
2. Acknowledged the mistakes (one time) and worked on them
3. Let her know I wasn't a doormat to be beat up over and over with the same complaints about the past.
4. Shown her I wanted to save my M but I was also moving forward with my life. Not moving on, but moving forward.
5. Not gotten sucked in emotionally to any of our conversations - have the ability to calmly in a very balanced way communicate with her.


tbart I know it's very confusing and you'll sometimes get opposite viewpoints. In hindsight I wish I had played things differently. I'm not so sure I agree with the constant validate and be nice theory - I accept it as something good when they first rain down hell, but after that it's just her complaining over and over again - basically continually smashing you in the head with a frying pan.

Not very sexy or attractive to a woman if a man allows themselves to be a doormat.

[tbart01]

You pretty much just sent me exactly what I was thinking. Those are the types of things i was thinking needed to be added. it doesn't seem as though you can continue to validate and get anywhere.

[Coach]

Validate - her feelings
"I feel like you didn't listen to me."
"I understand how you can see things that way."

Call out BS - facts, values

"You never listened to me."

"I can understand there are times I failed to listen. To characterise it as never is not true and I will not let you position me that way. I have listened and helped you on numerous occasions, (give examples.....)"

Don't let her tell you that you never or always act a certain way. Don't let her tell you how you feel or think.

Validate her but stand up for yourself.

[tbart01]

Again, sort of what i was thinking. It didn't make sense to think you had to sit there and just take it. However, I know not to come across as argumentative or as an a$$. I'll be more than happy to own up to my mistakes, but i will not take the blame for everything.