flowmom | need to commit to myself

[flowmom]

Well I just had a long talk with Dr. Gno and he invited me to share our conversation. Thank you Gnosis .

LBWs, read carefully and figure out if his advice to me is something that you want to try as well (cause he says that his advice is always the same ).

I've been sticking to a "dim" DB script and not taking any risks (chicken!!). But after almost 3 mo of separation, things have basically stalled.

It's time for some 180s, some of which look a bit pursuey. Gnosis suggests trying things and monitoring, but being totally prepared for rejection.

Tweaks to my plan:

1. Work on overcoming fear

2. Try working the 5 LLs for one month.
- words of affirmation: for example "you're a great dad because you ..."; "i how you've set up your apartment because..." ... he needs to feel appreciated/respected, like I'm his hero
- gifts: small, casual things (example - give him the cookbook that he asked for for xmas)
- quality time: example - follow up on his invitation to visit his apt.
- acts of service: example - offer him leftovers
- physical touch: example - lightly touch scratch/bruise and ask him about it

3. Stop being mysterious:
This may be working against me. Need to try a 180 on this. H may think that I'm dating and don't care about him, and that may be pushing him further away. Start being more transparent about my GAL activities. This could help to reassure him AND see that I'm GAL.

4. If he pressures me into D talk:
answer "you know how I feel about that...I understand that you want to talk about it but I need more time to concentrate on being there for the kids"

5. When we have "the talk" about finances:
"You've made some choices, and I think I understand why"
Set a boundary "when you ask me about how the work is going, I feel pressured and it makes me subconsciously resist working. I want you to stop asking about it otherwise will take me longer to solve this" and "I understand that you're trying to get a handle on the finances and monitor how much I'm earning. I suggest that you assume that my earnings will be zero, and I'll let you know how many hours I worked at the end of the month. I have a lot to come to terms with right now. I've been dealing with the recent shocks and I need time to find my grounding." Also, ask him how I can support him (other than earning).

6. Generally be more open and friendly

7. Address the procrastination issue

8. If there is a hope for reconciliation, make him work for it

[CityGirl]

I guess there are a few things that concern me about this list. You were able to provide very detailed actions when the actions revolved around your H but your actions don't contain any steps you will be taking for you.

The actions for YOU are #1, #6 and #7 and there is nothing more than a header. How will you do those things? What steps will you take that you can measure each day?

Everything about your H is well thought out yet there is nothing detailed for you. You have made your H and your children the center of your life for so long and IMO that is something that has to shift a bit.

Please pardon me if I am off base but it seems many of your GAL activities are done in solitude. You mentioned one older friend and your sister but other than that it doesn't really sound to me like you are meeting and interacting with new people. And IMO that is crucial for you. I guess I don't understand the "be less mysterious with your GAL activities" part. Your H knows you rely on him for just about everything (money, companionship) and I think your GAL activities need to be more social before you start sharing. Otherwise he will see that you are still in solitude and it seems your H (at this times) very much looks at you as a mother and not a sexy and independent woman.

As far as what he may or may not think about you dating it seems like you are doing a whole lot of speculation. Honestly, in most cases the WAS is thrilled to know the LBS is dating as it helps them feel less guilty about leaving and less guilty about things they might be doing (or wanting to do) with OP.

I do like the idea of telling him that he should work the budget as if you are not earning anything and if you do earn money you will let him know. There is no reason for you to be helping him pay for his apartment and the fact he is paying the bills for the family has no bearing. He can either pay the bills for the family as he has always done or you can get a court order for him to do so and he knows that. I guess that is why I really don't understand why you would praise him for doing something he is obligated to do AND he has taxed the financial situation further by taking on another rent payment.

Your list does seem rather pursuant. I just worry that some of the ideas will keep you in the "mom zone" in his eyes (offering him food, asking about injuries).

I do think you should prepare yourself for rejection and keep very close watch on his reactions. WAS are like wild animals, when you back them in a corner or pressure them they will either attack or run away. But the most important thing is for you to expand on your "things" with the same detail and thought you did as the "things" for your H.

[flowmom]

Thanks CG. To clarify, the conversation was about how to tweak things with H, not about self care/GAL. That list doesn't include all the many things I'm doing for self care/GAL, including IC, talking with supportive people regularly, taking ADs, doing personal development work, reading books about D, going out once a week with sister/friends (including meeting new people which I did on Sunday night), spending time with friends, some exercise and meditation, catching up on paperwork, etc. Yes, many of my activities are solitary, but it's going to take time to find the right opportunities to branch out socially, and I have been actively looking for those (Sunday night is an example).

[alice444]

I like 1 and 4 (which I will borrow myself) for sure. Fear holds me/us back so much. How much would we do that we're not doing now if we had no fear? A lot. I wish I could adopt a Buddist attitude and let go of all of my attachments and dissolve the fear and worry that comes with being attached. I don't know how one does that.

A different perspective on the solitary-ness (tho I think it's good both to spend time with yourself and with others)- it seems to me like you do/have done a lot for and with your family- a lot of people to support and nurture. If you haven't done much just for Flo or just with yourself in the past, I think some peaceful alone time is very healthy, as long as you don't isolate yourself (it doesn't sound like you are). Some people I know don't even know what they would do with themselves if they were alone for a moment, and I think it's good to get ok with being solitary sometimes and finding out how that feels. I feel sorry for those idiots I see at the gym and elsewhere who can't even get off their cell phones and need to talk or be with someone else 24/7.

Do you have a yard or patio? I myself have found gardening very therapeutic. Flowers can get expensive, but you don't have to buy a lot- or you could even plant just seeds. Getting my hands in the dirt and sweating outside has brought me a lot of peace.

I hope the ADs kick in soon, but it will probably take several weeks- you're in good company there, sister, and while they don't solve problems, if they work they can at least help you get to a point where you're thinking more clearly and better able to deal with what life throws at you.

take care of yourself-

[flowmom]

A different perspective on the solitary-ness (tho I think it's good both to spend time with yourself and with others)- it seems to me like you do/have done a lot for and with your family- a lot of people to support and nurture. If you haven't done much just for Flo or just with yourself in the past, I think some peaceful alone time is very healthy, as long as you don't isolate yourself (it doesn't sound like you are).

Thank you for writing that Jaime! Actually, this is a very important thing that I have sort of forgotten. Being a parent is SO interactive (esp with my kids). I'm an introvert, so being alone is what recharges my batteries. It helps me to be a sane, engaged parent. And having long stretches of time alone is what I've craved for six years. The things that I'm doing while alone are basically positive things...I don't feel like I'm wasting my time. So I think I'm going to continue enlarging my social network, spending time with the friends that I do have AND feeling good about my alone time. When I feel pathetic, it's because of the rejection and missing my kids, not because of feeling lonely.

[flowmom]

So we had the finances talk tonight. I give myself a "B" on it. I did sneak in some words of affirmation and a "how can I support you?". H basically said that his business income is going to be decreasing (which was expected because a certain income stream is stopping) and he'll have trouble paying me as much...which is legit IMO. He asked me about my plan for working and I beat around the bush quite a bit and said that I didn't feel comfortable forecasting my work hours in advance but I felt comfortable telling him at the end of the month. He acknowledged that I am starting up my business and that my contracts are in transition, etc. I made reference to things being in transition and my finding my grounding etc. Overall I think it was a reasonable conversation and he wasn't being mean or demanding or anything. He did look stressed and he was having trouble with eye contact...maybe even a bit of jaw clenching - which is a giveaway of the fight-or-flight thing. He may have been holding in a lot of anger, and he might be venting about our conversation to someone this very minute. Hard to know. OTOH, it is a tense topic by its very nature and I guess I shouldn't mind-read too much.

[courageous wife]

FM-sounds like the talk with well with H...glad you are communicating. You have some new 180's to try! Good...monitor and see how it goes! Wishing you well!!!

[alice444]

You got through what I know must've been a very tough conversation. Good for you :-)

[flowmom]

A chat gave me the idea to look at DBing H from a Myers Briggs POV. He's an INTJ - I think.

Rational men want to be respected for:

* Providing freedom and treating their mates as rational adults
* Their expertise in their field(s) of interest
* Their ability to see long-term implications others can't and to respond to avoid negative consequences
* Their ability to deal with things in a logical, rational manner without being swayed by inappropriate emotion
* Their deep thinking and ability to analyze things from all angles
* Protecting their families from evil systems of thought

[Kalni]

Sorry I've been MIA. Anyway, just for the record, 3 months of separation is nothing. NOTHING. You are still finding your balance and are on survival mode/coping mode. If you feel ready to take the next steps, which you seem to be, fine...

I strongly object to the idea of being clear about your GAL so that H will not think you are over him or however you expressed it. First, that means FEAR. You will be doing something out of fear. I thought that was and should be #1 of your goals (FEAR=False Evidence Appearing Right).IMO, you should just be careful not to go overboard with CREATING mystery because they can sense it isnt true. You have no reason to tell your WAH, your whereabouts etc, unless it is related to the kids. Does he tell you what he has been doing? I doubt it. Granted you have been staying at home and probably, he is used to you being at home, it is also a change that shows your independence.
Secondly, IMHO and according to MY experience,HE doenst need reassurance you love him. He takes that for granted.

When he talks about the divorce, you will say what? That you need to take care of the kids and cant TALK about it? Hmmm, resisting and manipulating. That's not the way to go IMO. Talk about it, hear him out if he wants to. You dont have to ACT on it the next morning. But, how long do you think you can put it off? I mean, if he is dead set on it, you will only get him upset... IMO.

Regarding finances: I would use a statement such as "earning more is more of a personal goal I have than something you wish at this point. I want that for me more than you want it for me. So, keep in mind we are on the same boat on this. BUT, I will not rush and I will take my next steps carefully cause this is very important for me and my future."

LLs: First try to figure out which one is his. What did he use to do for you when things were going well? Be careful not to smoother him.

Open and friendly? I would say friendly and distant. Friendly and discreet, friendly and "minding your own business", friendly and easygoing, breezy, light... Not open.

What do you call rejection to your above plan? He cant reject 1 & 6 I think, he cant reject you treating him nicely, he cant reject you speaking your mind, he cant reject you being friendly etc etc He may NOT respond but thats OK. Be patient.
There is limited risk involved my dear. You are separated. This is a watch and wait "game". Test and trial phase.

Make it more about you my friend.
K