Is LRT applicable here?

[Fergie]

Thanks pearlharbr. I think you are right. I'm placing too much emphasis on the wedding photo thing.

Plus, if your W is uncomfortable with her weight it's totally understandable that she doesn't want to look at photos of herself.

Bingo. That is what she said.

That's fine as long as you don't project your feelings and values onto her.

You are absolutely right. But I am getting mixed signals. We just came back from a trip to St. Maarten and her best friend was egging me on. "You should buy her some jewelry. She'd really like something nice." And I was thinking, "Why? she doesn't care about it." Then she bought herself something called a Pandora bracelet? <shrug>

How different is she now than when you married? How different are you?

I like to think I haven't changed much. She seems to have changed greatly. It seemed to start when she got her first corporate job and escalated from there. It really shows when I am around her family and she is with her sisters. They are all very close. The sisters haven't changed much, but it is like she doesn't fit in anymore. All she has is work where her sisters have hobbies, interests, and projects. And it is a level playing field, since none of the girls have kids. It really puts into sharp contrast how boring she is. She has invested so much of herself in work, it is all she has. I think it is where she gets her best feelings of self worth.

--Fergie

[mindfull]

Fergie! Academic science? Hmmmmm... I automate research labs for a living! Wonder if I've sold to you! LoL

[mindfull]

OK, Fergie, just so you know, Pearl's awesome. One of my faves! And, you'll get a nice variety of opinions with both of us, and anyone else we drag in here!

So, when you said decorate, I didn't think you meant, like actually, paint and drywall! Yikes! I have no interest in that, but will help pick the paint color. And, decorate, as far as accessorize, pick out and arrange furniture, I'm on it, but we do do it together. (Pearl, no pics? I would NEVER have guessed it! LOL)

It basically just sounds like this woman has buried herself in her work, and doesn't care what else goes on in her life, let alone w/her own body. She'd be happy to just workworkwork, consume Red Bull, and do more workworkwork. I can't believe you got her on a vacation! Congrats!

Question - Why did you share your goals w/her? Those goals are for you. When you tell her your goal is to have her call you ever 2-3 days, you've now pressured her into this new "rule". If you want her to call you every few days, when you DO talk to her, make it good! BusyBusyBusy, doing things I enjoy, upbeat, etc... Tell me about YOUR day. How are YOU? Did you get that new contract? Way to go on making your sales goal! You get the drift.

I got a chuckle out of you knowing the diamond rating on her stone! Cute! And, you shared it w/the right DB'er! You haven't been to my thread, but it's now appropriately named MINDFULL's SHOPPING NETWORK. We do get to my situation once in awhile, but it's a great place for shopping tips, exercise logging and nutrition talk, whining (sometimes), and maybe a few drunk stories!

Biking!!! Pearl and I are actually in training. We're doing the Podrunners Intervals - First Day to 5K. Pearl's on Week Five and I'm on Week Six. We have 5K's within the month! I used to LOVE spin classes! But, I've never actually biked. I think I'd need the shorts w/the butt pads, though!

We'll be back for some more... Keep sharing. We'll come up w/some actual help soon!

We're both on fb, too, under our DB names. But, hidden. So, let me know if you want to find us!

I will withhold my Fergilicious comments, too! LOL

[pearlharbr]

Ok, back to the beginning.

She has admitted EA but not PA. As Puppy likes to point out, WAS usually admit to one level lower than what is actually happening. Has she agreed to end contact with OM or is she still involved with him?

IMO and in my experience, MC is pointless while the WAS is involved in an EA/PA. They will only use it to justify why they're leaving.

If she has changed so much and doesn't show any interest in being the person you married, why do you want to be married to her? I'm not judging, I just want you be honest with your answer(s). If you simply don't believe in D and are willing to be married to the person she is right now for the rest of your life, then fine.

First things first, you have to deal with her affair. There are two main approaches. First is nicknamed "Bo Peep," i.e. being the best person you can be and hope she'll realize what she's losing and come back home. The other is more proactive, nicknamed The Gandhi Approach. You can check it out here.

[Fergie]

mindfull and pearl,

Okay this might get long.

mindfull, I'd love some new lab equipment, if I had the budget! Generally I see sales reps and scream, "Quick! Quick! Close the door!"

By decorate I didn't mean hammer and nails, but I think painting falls under that category. I did actually mean knick knacks and pictures and stuff.

It basically just sounds like this woman has buried herself in her work, and doesn't care what else goes on in her life, let alone w/her own body. She'd be happy to just workworkwork, consume Red Bull, and do more workworkwork. I can't believe you got her on a vacation! Congrats!

Yes, yes, yes. I see you understand exactly. However, I didn't actually get her on the vacation. Her friend did. She basically had to go. I was told by the W a year ago, she was going and I could come along or not. That whole vacation precipitated this D event. That is completely another post entirely.

Question - Why did you share your goals w/her?

Um... because I told the counselor my goals in IC and then she specifically asked what my goals were at the end of our couples session. I guess I was on the spot. That is why I left off the third goal.

Glad you liked the ring story. I actually like jewelry stores, or at least I used to. I particularly like emeralds. It is just too bad I'm a guy and don't wear jewelry.

You definitely need the shorts with chamois. A lot of sensitive bits down there! Even with the shorts there can be some umm... numbness?

Okay, Pearl. Straight to the serious stuff.

Has she agreed to end contact with OM or is she still involved with him?

I have no idea. She dropped the bomb on a Tuesday night. The whole thing just felt in my gut like there was an affair going on. I asked specifically, "Are you having an affair?". She said,"No. Well, I'm talking to a guy online. But, no." She already had a bag packed and said she was going to stay in a hotel until she could look at an apartment on Friday. Then she paid me the ultimate insult and said, "You're going to be okay, right? You're not going to hurt yourself?"

I corresponded with her over email and phone that week. Pleading with her to go to C. We had a Friday appointment and I just went in and took the blame for everything. Set up IC for me and couples C in three weeks. C saw the real sitch after my first session and called to schedule an IC with W.

Here is where it gets interesting. She told me she would call in a few days and then fell off the face of the planet. Her mother called me frantically and said that neither she or my W's sister could get a hold of my W. She finally turned up Sunday night and was in a hotel (allegedly because she had cheaper corporate rates, yeah right...)in a town nearby the OM.

One cryptic thing she said in the Friday couples C session was,"There are guys interested in my body type." I didn't know quite how to take that.

One thing is for sure. She was very defiant on Friday. Much more subdued on Monday. I don't know what happened. I may never know. My gut is telling me something happened that weekend. I'd prefer to believe it was a simple date and not love at first sight. I'd rather not think of the alternative.

She moved some of her things out on that Monday and the following Friday. She took very little. A few baskets of clothes, tv, personal items. She did not take stuff she said she would or stuff we have duplicates of (dishes, pots & pans, towels). In fact 3/4 of her stuff is still here, but she did take almost all of her "marital aids". That haunts me. She leaves her clothes, but takes those... To be honest, I'm not sure they weren't gone the previous Friday.

The Friday she moved, I was cool and a cucumber and she commented positively on our conversation. Then Saturday I got too relationship-y. Sunday was our date which went positively.

So, you guys are the experts. Friday before: men-find-me-sexy. Next Friday: going-for-coffee-with-STBX.

If she has changed so much and doesn't show any interest in being the person you married, why do you want to be married to her? I'm not judging, I just want you be honest with your answer(s). If you simply don't believe in D and are willing to be married to the person she is right now for the rest of your life, then fine.

It is not that I don't believe in D. This is actually my second go-around. I was married for about 5 minutes when I was 21. Ex-W had an A with her coworker. I walked in on it happening. That was an experience, let me tell you. So this ain't my first rodeo. But I do know what my gut tells me and it tells me something happened, but I'm not sure what. I may never know for certain. I'm willing to work past this, but I am coming to the realization I need to figure out what is waiting for me on the other side. I just know I don't want to go back to our previous marriage.

There is one thing I told her. I said I look at my life in chapters. There is the chapter when I lived with my family. The chapter when I went to school, had my first marriage, and grew into adulthood. And the third chapter was with her. And now that has ended. I'm starting my next chapter now. And I can write anything I want to. I'd prefer to write it with her. But if I can't I already know I can survive this. I will be sad for a while, but I'll move on and meet someone new. I just know from experience it is a tough road. Actually, I guess either way it will be a tough road.

First things first, you have to deal with her affair.

Wow. I guess you can put me solidly in the Gandhi Approach. I've already done exactly that. I just didn't know there was a name for it. I was very diplomatic with it. I went with the least offensive OEA charge and said, "I don't know what is going on. I have my suspicions, but I don't have any proof." She went home to her parents for the weekend. I'm not sure what, if anything, transpired. She does seem more compliant.

Well, that is a lot more info. Anything I should be doing in the meantime?

--Fergie

[pearlharbr]

First of all, I can be fun too! Just check out mindfull's thread. Do come over there for the shopping talk. We haven't really touched on the jewelry topic yet. I know that most women would adore a man who went out of his way to pick out nice pieces for her (I'm definitely on that list!) but it sounds like your W isn't one of them. That's unfortunate but it is what it is.

Glad to hear you're a Gandhi man. I'm definitely in that camp. Read posts by robx, gucci loafer, and Puppy Dog Tails to start. You already know to follow sandi2's list. Now stick to it! Yes, I do think LRT is the right thing since you have to assume that she is still involved with OM. Check out Amybel's thread. Puppy reposted some of Rob's advice just today and it's spot on.

It sounds like you already do a good job of GAL. I would recommend continuing IC to help figure out how to improve yourself in other ways. What were her complaints about you? About the marriage? Not that they are all valid since she's likely to rewrite history to validate her decisions, but often there is some truth mixed in.

It's interesting that she commented on other men being interested in her body. Has your love life slacked off due to her weight gain? It appears that she believes you don't find her attractive.

I agree with both you and mindfull, your W has chosen to focus solely on her career because she's good at it and people respect her there. She probably doesn't feel good about her personal appearance so she chooses to focus on things that do make her feel good. OM came along and made her feel good about her looks and that does something for her.

It sounds like you understand the concepts of love languages. If you get to piecing then you'll have to work hard on speaking her languages.

Right now, continue to work on yourself. Work on detachment. Realize that you can't control her thoughts / feelings / actions, you can only control yourself. If she wants to be D then show her what that looks like. Treat her as you would the mail carrier--pleasant but not overly familiar. Back way off and let her initiate all contact unless it's business related.

I feel like I'm forgetting something but this is already long. I'm here all the time so I'll be back to check in.

[pearlharbr]

Ok, here's the off-topic stuff...

MF, I have pictures on my walls, just not personal ones. I used to be a cover-the-walls type in college. Then when BF and I started moving so often we just never got around to it. Now the artwork is up (framed posters, metal pieces, mirrors) but just no photos. Seriously, I just don't want to have to make more work for myself when we move again. I've been thinking of printing out a series of B&W travel photos of places we've been and hanging them in the stairwell. That's personal to me since I took them, but not too much.

I do however like to paint and decorate. I would have helped Fergie hang the drywall! (But it does kind of suck. The mudding and sanding is just so messy. It's BF's least favorite thing to do so if we ever did a big remodel he'd want to hire someone to do that part and he never wants to hire anyone for anything he thinks he can do himself.) We've remodeled four bathrooms and I've picked up many skills along the way. But I had never painted before we bought our first house and I was 29. Now I can change light fixtures, switches and outlets; replace plumbing fittings; install tile; change out doorknobs; not to mention paint rooms and freehand the trim paint. In fact I really need to finish up my closet rehab so BF can have his closet back.

[Fergie]

First of all, I can be fun too!

I didn't mean to sell you short. I'm sure you are! It is just mindfull is a hoot! And sort of my first.

I know that most women would adore a man who went out of his way to pick out nice pieces for her (I'm definitely on that list!) but it sounds like your W isn't one of them.

Hey it *is* more affordable for me.

What were her complaints about you? About the marriage?

I think she has valid complaints. I'm no stellar husband. She asked for more affection. Now, she didn't ask for affection in an action oriented way. BTW, I love that phrase "action oriented". Our last couples session I validated her need for affection, but I said I needed an "action oriented" way she wanted it shown. The counselor literally said, "Oh. I like that" and started scribbling furiously. Hey. If nothing else I haven't lost my sense of humor and found that funny. Seriously, though, she wants more hugs, kisses, and hand holding. I guess I find that hard to do when I feel partially abandoned and neglected most of the week.

She also wanted more sex. It is not like we have a desolate sex life. We don't have kids, so sex is on the menu pretty much every night. It is usually 1-2 times a week. Sometimes more, but sometimes only a couple times a month. Never less than twice a month. I'll probably get some angry readers, but to her that is a problem.

Third, she wanted to spend more time together. Usually that means going to company picnics, company X-mas parties, company softball, company volleyball. Although to be fair some of it is family or non-company related. She said,"I work all week. I would rather not spend my weekends cleaning or working on the house."

I think if given her way, we would hire maids, gardeners, contractors, decorators, mechanics, etc. I have a hard time letting someone do something I can do myself. I need to pick my battles and let some of that go.

She also wants me to be more communicative. She has me there. I'm not the best conversationalist. It could be worse, though. She could have married my brother.
I come from a very long and proud line of strong, but silent men. And sometimes mumbling. It is on my action plan for self-improvement and I am seeing some success.

Has your love life slacked off due to her weight gain?

Umm.. not really. If I'm in a crappy mood, and I see her undressed, I can be very mentally critical. Once she is in bed, I really don't care. It just seems like bad timing and not asking for what you want. She will say, "we are having sex tonight". And I say okay. But after cleaning up after dinner, doing the dishes, taking out the trash, cleaning the litter boxes, and just getting to sit down for few minutes, she is asleep in bed by the time I get there. Add a long bike ride in there, and it just seems like another chore to do.

It appears that she believes you don't find her attractive.

Can't agree more. We have had 3-4 discussions about her weight in the last 13 years. I can tell you she remembers every single one. And it's true. I fear waking up one day and not being sexually attracted to her. I also fear I'll be hit by a bus, end up in a wheelchair, and she resents taking care of me. Or she gets Alzheimers on her 70th B-day and I resent taking care of her. I have all these fears and more, but I guess we just have to live in the moment and accept that none of us have a crystal ball.

She probably doesn't feel good about her personal appearance so she chooses to focus on things that do make her feel good. OM came along and made her feel good about her looks and that does something for her.

I agree, but then what about everything else? What else am I supposed to do? That is why I reached out to the group. What is going on here? MLC, A, depression, mixture of all three? Does the diagnosis even matter? Her valuing of self-worth through work started a long time ago. I think she has been carrying this negative body image and low self-esteem for a lot, lot longer.

Right now, continue to work on yourself.

Got it. If only I can get my friends to stop recommending that I start nailing everything in town. I guess some folk need to live vicariously.

Thanks,

--Fergie

[mindfull]

Fergie! Wow!

I have a lot to add, but in five minutes I'm going to watch my S10 in his dress rehearsal. He is Paul Bunyan! LoL. (This is a 1st for this sports-centered family! What to wear? LoL)

A few quick tidbits...

What? No budget? Need help writing a grant, for something as sexy as an acoustic dispenser, individual tube labeler, scanners/readers, etc...? . You wouldn't shut me out! I'm a hoot, remember?!

And, you are probably the most blessed dude here! Pearl AND Mindfull! I'm the interrogator, and Pearl shares her Pearl's of wisdom! wait until we get our "boyz" involved!

Ok, will be back with a real, helpful post later.

Emeralds? NICE

[Fergie]

I would have helped Fergie hang the drywall!

That's awesome! I'd love someone to help me, even if it was just minor help or acted as foreman to keep me prioritized. Drywall is definately dusty and nasty. But it is satisfying when done. I like mine to look polished like white marble. I wouldn't last half a day on a drywall crew. I work too slow and am a perfectionist.

I think we are very similar to our tastes in decorating. I prefer artwork to personal photos, unless they were of places we have been. I would prefer photos be in frames on shelves or on tables. Not necessarily in-your-face either.