As one who is HAPPILY married to a former nice guy (whom she left) and recommitted to a strong man (whom she came back to), I think I know a little bit about how that dynamic works. We have lived it.
Cheers ~ Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
one last thing....xH wasn't particularly a "nice guy" as described here in its negative aspects. or--even its positive aspects for that matter!! I think I had the worst of both worlds!
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
I'd like to add one more perspective from a woman. I agree with Rob above - that was LEADERSHIP in your family. Women look for leadership, respect, kindness, protection and love in men. Forget the "bad boy" thing... I don't know where that came from! Its the traits the show confidence in yourself and your ability to lead your family that we like most. That's what women are attracted to. The whole "Nice Guy" stigma seems to have been confused in previous posts - male and female interpretations of what that means. Go figure.... Us ladies typically see the above traits as someone being a "Nice Guy" ... you guys typically see the walk all over me, I would do anything for you just don't leave me behaviors as "Nice Guy"..
I can attest to this. I was in such a sad state for a few years with depression and no self-esteem that I did nothing but mope and say poor me when I was at home. I drained all attraction out of my life and she finally said enough with this wimp. When I was depressed I blamed the world for my problems and shut down. EVERYBODY walked all over me!!! She noticed and finally she thought she would be better off without me or with a man who was like I used to be. Especially since she did not want our son acting like me.
But that woke me up and I have done a 180 in my whole life and things are getting beter. I have always been the nice guy until you push my borders, then it was time to stand my ground. Except in the depression years. Now that she sees that I am confident again and am stable things are starting back the right direction. But all of the people on here helped me as well. But T said it the right way I think in your thread!!! What she said will help you and try to stay strong and get your life back on track and at least you can be happy and secure. She will notice once you make lasting changes. My wife has and I think she is holding out to see if it is truly a change or a paper tiger. All I can say is I feel great and the changes are permanant, I hope you can do that too. You need to be happy with yourself truly!!!!
I have continued to read everyones thread but not posted much. Here is my update.
In the past couple of weeks there have been some really good moments where I feel she is breaking, then moments where I feel its just over. I am much more confident ( not being a wussy, per Robx) no tears etc when speaking to W. I am much more direct, confident and very calm when I speak to W. I have really stayed away from the R talk. But, like all of us its a very difficult road to travel. I am a very oppinionated guy, and I speak my mind.
This past weekend she was not so great, but ends up ok.
I will explain. Saturday I get up to go to work early. Earlier then ever before. I didnt make breakfast for the kids or anything. I just said, gotta go, see ya. Didnt tell her what time I would be back etc. No communication from her all day, and I dont call either. I get back around 2 and just my boys are home. I told them that later on I was going to see my nephew play hockey and if they wanted to come.. They both said yes. W calls home about 10 minutes later. I answer told her the plan. She was upset because she knew I was not going to be home, and she had planned a movie night with all the kids. I told her, not sure why you are upset, we are just going to see a hockey game. She indicated that she felt I was taking my daughter too and that she would be alone. That wasnt the plan.
Myself and the 2 boys left. The whole time I didnt understand why she got so upset. I sent her a message ( I know wrong) saying, look, we are just going to hockey and didnt realize you had plans. She said fine, just to drop it.
I dont hear from her at all. At 9 pm, she sends me a message to tell me that she and my D are home. Not to worry all is good. I dont understand that, she never does that. I replied, thankyou for letting me know. She replies, your very welcome. Now, I know she is playing me.. We sent a few messages back and forth. One of my comments to her was that she was funny in her text, and she is not so stiff today. I told her that I usually have the "stiff one" .. Her response.. " I am not going to touch that one. Now, am I reading to much into this. I have tried numberous times to say small sexual gestures and they are usually ignored. Not this time.
I came home at 11:30 or so. She slept with D and I said.. AWESOME... the whole bed to myself..
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
Sunday now comes. Get up, things were good at the start then wheels fell off. I of course was encouraged by the postive moments of the day before that I tried to talk to her a bit on us. We were in the my garage and we chatted a bit and she came to me to hug me. I asked her, was that a pitty hug or a hug that you meant. She said a bit of both... Funny, I said.. Its so hard to detach.
We discussed banking and the financial stuff. What to do. She then shows me the spread sheet she created on how to split the bills. I was devestated. I was pushing for this becasue I thought this would scare her and rock her world a bit. Nope... not the way I thought. She said what do you think, I told her that I have to review this a bit and I would let her know. The rest of the day was sour.
I am going to fast forward to the night. Friends call. My buddy and his wife want to come over. My buddy knows a bit whats going on, but not his w and my W doenst know I have told him anything. It was great. We got along fine. They leave, I tell my W, " now that was nice" she agreed. I tell her that we can have all that. The frieds etc. I know its pursuing. I tell her that its her decision.
This is the kicker for me. W tells me that she has been thinking of alot of things. Alot of the stuff I say she tells me that I am right. I applaude that statment, but she tells me right away that she will not elaborate on what she means. I feel like she is 2 different people. Earlier on in the conversation I questioned her about the OM from work. She denies everything and her story is consistant. I check FB, her person page, email, and blackberry. I cannot find anything. She is too smart and deletes everything I am sure.
Ok, so beleive it or not, our conversation ended really good and we went to bed together. Of course, her on her side and me on mine. Here is something I cant get my head around. Why is it that somedays she will kiss me before she goes to work, and somedays no. WTF... I know there is lots of info here and probably confused some of you. I guess I should post more often so that the situation is more current.
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
One of my comments to her was that she was funny in her text, and she is not so stiff today. I told her that I usually have the "stiff one" .. Her response.. " I am not going to touch that one. Now, am I reading to much into this. I have tried numberous times to say small sexual gestures and they are usually ignored.
Quick question. The dirty sexting, is that something you and your wife did before she dropped the bomb on you? Is it something you both liked or it turned both of you on?
I'm asking because when my husband had his affair, he seemed to watch a lot more porn and it translated into him saying things I thought were gross or wanting to have porno-like sex (spanking, bondage, etc.). He never did that before, so it was a red flag that something had changed.
For me, if my husband sent me the same type of message you sent to your wife - AND we had never talked that way before - my first thought would be "This is how you talk to a whore or a porn star, this is not how you are supposed to talk to your wife."
I'd ignore the messages too. I would feel like you want to be with me because you want sex, not because you want to be with me.
It'd be a warning sign to me that I should probably stay away until he got his act together. That's just my take on it, and again, it's only if it's a change that's happened recently.
If you and your W talked this way before everything started going downhill, there might be other people who can answer this.
knittedscarf, yes we used to text each other stuff like that all the time. More me than her, but she definately participated in it as well..
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
Right now you're at the stage where you're reading into every little gesture and thing she's doing. Then when she does something that YOU don't expect, it throws you for a loop.
You need to detach so that you're not constantly jerked around. Let her be the confused one. Not you. Stay the course of doing the right thing in terms of standing for your M and don't encourage her or scheme to try and get her to do something. It's not going to work.
The woman you knew as your W is no longer there. Her actions are going to continue to be unpredictable so don't even try second-guessing her.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
