I'm sure that I've been using these kinds of phrases regularly throughout my M. During one of H's spew sessions, he actually accused me of saying: "I'm sorry that you feel that way" in our M when I perceived H to be overreacting to things (as opposed to validating?!) and discounting my role in making him feel that way. I recognized these reactions as resultant from abusive childhood and always feeling like he was being 'told what to do' (even loving things in the interest of his safety or health)... This is - and continues to be - one of H's major complaints. This is MY work - NOT being mommy-like and respecting his (and all other human being's) need to have authority over their own lives.
There sure seems to be a fine line between validating and offense!
SH
Me 42 H39 M 10 years, T 12.75 years MLC began spring 2009 ILYBNILWY 1/18/10 WAS 2/5/10 EA revealed 3/6/10 EA ended (by her) 3/7/10 M - DOA...but working on getting disentangled.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" has blown up on me before in convos too. I amended it to something like this
That's definitely not my intention, and I'm sorry if I've done something to make you feel that way. I want to get along.
It takes more responsibility onto my own actions without saying I'm DEFINITELY all to blame.
It sounds like your H might respond well to "I hear what you're saying." and nodding affirmatively a lot.
I don't want to be mom or therapist either. But the reality exists is that some people were treated terribly in their childhoods and they PROJECT. So you can only assume they're going to and treat them differently. Unfortunately. There's a weird fine line between learning new things that work better with certain personality types and "walking on eggshells." I'm trying to stay in the middle of it.
Deborah Tannen has some interesting books about how cultural differences in families of origin impact how and what we hear when others are talking to. Made me very worried about coming across as overbearing to certain types of people. Ugh.
The other thing I'll say is that if you have not validated enough or recently with H and he is feeling upset, you will get SPEWED ON SEVERAL TIMES before the convo ever returns to "normal." It has happened to a number of people on these threads. Sometimes they calm down after some weeks of spewing. If they don't, then you have to learn time-out and exit statements.
I feel that I have been on the right track in the validating department (well, not with this NC in effect), but I have gained much better insight into it now.
This and all of the 'gentling' & listening skills that I have been working on have already made me feel much changed & much stronger.
Thank you!
SH
Me 42 H39 M 10 years, T 12.75 years MLC began spring 2009 ILYBNILWY 1/18/10 WAS 2/5/10 EA revealed 3/6/10 EA ended (by her) 3/7/10 M - DOA...but working on getting disentangled.
Well...it seems that he is more cognizant of financials than I thought (one more reason to stop trying to figure out what is going on in his head & DETACH!)...
Just got a very civil text "I see you moved your scholarship $. I think that's smart to do! It's not mine to touch! It's yours, you earned it [some more stuff]...I'm glad you took it out! It helps me gain a clearer financial perspective."
...will wonders never cease? All the worry about spewing...for naught!
Still WAH's over-spending as of late has me nervous. I just hope that the bills can be paid and we're able to have a civil end to NC at the end of the month.
In other news - I am still struggling with detaching, despite the NC. He is constantly on my mind and there is some core part of me imagining his return. This is so not logical, since he told me he was 100% sure that it was over a month ago - no hope/hopeless. he doesn't believe that I can change and he doesn't in love with me anymore. Heck, I'm not even sure that he likes me anymore! Still...isn't it: don't believe 100% of what they say???! Oh! DETACH!
So, I go far far away tomorrow until Tuesday (sigh). Hopefully the completely alien change of scenery and leaving the house-that-was-once-a-home will help some. All packed up...but still feeling empty inside on so many levels. Trying to get stronger, not crying, not talking so much about WAH to others...I AM 42 years old for goodness sake! Not a lost little girl! [wish I could say the same for WAH - 'girl' replaced by 'boy', of course ;)]
SH
Me 42 H39 M 10 years, T 12.75 years MLC began spring 2009 ILYBNILWY 1/18/10 WAS 2/5/10 EA revealed 3/6/10 EA ended (by her) 3/7/10 M - DOA...but working on getting disentangled.
SH, I'm pleased that he was so pleasant about it. Who would have thought he would respond the way he did? I certainly didn't. However, who knows how he will be the next time you hear from him. You just never know where they are at from time to time.
It'll help to get away for a few days. Try to enjoy yourself a bit. Do something extra special in the pampering department.
Please take care of yourself!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Me 42 H39 M 10 years, T 12.75 years MLC began spring 2009 ILYBNILWY 1/18/10 WAS 2/5/10 EA revealed 3/6/10 EA ended (by her) 3/7/10 M - DOA...but working on getting disentangled.
Have a good trip. The change of scenery will help. You are so early into this situation. You're doing great. Actual detachment, whether hoping for R or not, I think takes a very long time. I'm other six months and still working on it.
It's been a while since I posted...I was just coasting on NC for 3 weeks, visiting family far far way for 6 days in late March, and working hard to GAL - connect with caring groups of people in the area. But, since breaking NC last week, things seem to have really sped up and I need some wise feedback and advice...
Last week: Thursday, at the end of 'scheduled' NC, WAH (now soon to be in-house MLC H) came by to pay bills; on Friday to do laundry and talk about what needs to be done in getting the house ready for sale; on Saturday to walk-through and 'think' about what needs to be done; and on Sunday to talk some more. I had a real estate guy come over on Thursday afternoon to go over everything previously, so I had a list ready to add to. He decided that he feels like he's in limbo - just working 7 days, driving around and avoiding going to the apartment because he says it's lonely and he makes him feel like he's 'homeless' [to which non-DBing me replied 'you have a home, you just don't want it anymore].
At first, trying to be kind, I acted fine with H returning...though, after NC and greeting the alien stranger once more, every fiber of my being screamed NO to this idea right now because I've been working so hard on myself to accept, detach & GAL, in spite of the feelings of loneliness, pain, and rejection after 13 years of 'best friendship'... And yet I still struggle with the part of me obsessed over this innate surety that this M was 'meant to be' and that it will undoubtedly survive H's MLC because of the (previous) depth of our connection and love (really, I FEEL SO SURE about this!). So, H's return (or alien-H's return) and treatment of me as an enemy-stranger will be (I think) beyond difficult to cope with!
On Friday, while we were talking about the list of work that needs to be done, he loudly refused to do any of the yard work or outside work that needs done (stripping/staining, etc.) and also said that we can't do any of this stuff together, because he fears that I'll start thinking of us as a couple again. By Saturday (he came over again AFTER I had finished all of the yard work, raking & clearing garden beds) I was 'awake' enough to attempt to set some boundaries... Boundary #1: I let him know that he cannot pick and choose what he was willing to do to get the house ready. It's just not right. This is a joint investment and the work needed should be equally shared. Boundary #2: I was not sure that it was a good idea (not emotionally healthy is what I said) for H to stay here and he needed to give me some time to think about it. He had already made an appointment with the landlord about breaking the lease for Tuesday, so I said that we would talk after I returned from an all-day meditation retreat on Sunday. But, when I returned, I still wasn't sure...
Long story short - after much contemplation - it boiled down to finances: we really can't afford H's MLC apartment and the mortgage and house expenses - especially with his excess spending lately! But part of me feels like he wins: no consequences/accountability for the decision to sign a year lease and run with little warning. And the financial penalty for breaking the lease is really steep! So even more $$ out the window! But, really, there seems to be no choice, unless foreclosure is an option. So, Boundary # 3: H needs to BE NICE to me when he is here (and I, in turn, promised to STOP sharing what is going on in my heart (my certainty that the M is worth saving with him - yeah, I know, NOT 'acting as if'! - since this is what usually sets off the spewing about my horrible-ness!). And the final Boundary #4: the house cannot go on the market until I have a full time job with benefits (this is critical!).
H also finally reached out to one of our neighbors last week, a couple who we were close to and who have supported me throughout all of this, sharing incredulity, tears, and love. They are fully informed on the issues of MLC and the stages and have been 'with me' (believing/recognizing the MLC reality) from the start. The H in the couple still 'hopes' along with me that WAH will 'wake up', though the W seems to have given up after all of the madness. They are very centered, supportive, loving people - and still love him as much as I do! He has not told them anything that they haven't already heard from me...but I fear that his being back here will make it very awkward going forward...
So: here I go! He is bringing some 'things' back tonight and hopes to move fully into the guest room over the weekend so that he can look for a new occupant for the MLC apartment. I am nervous and feeling hopeless (is that one step away from true acceptance?!).
Previously, HB indicated that she thought he was using the $$ thing as an excuse to return ...but he is SO adamant about the IDLYA things that I truly think this is the beginning of the end. Or he could land here and drag his feet (I really don't want to lose the little house! I am hoping that he takes his time with tasks and wakes up before it's too late!).
Still working on myself, making plans to be busy as much as possible this weekend (nothing tonight though!). Here's an important question: if one of H's main complaints is my being too 'caught up' in my own activities and pursuits to the point where he felt secondary and unloved - how is GAL (which I've been doing all along in my life) a workable approach? Wouldn't it make more sense to pare-down and let go of some of the activities? Not that I intend to stop, I just wonder if there might be an alternative, since this is H's issue: he perceived that my pursuits were more important than him, our M, or his interests. Just wonderin'!
All thoughts, feedback, & advice on all of the above is VERY welcome! I am really struggling with this sitch!
I don't know your sitch, but in general, WASs often protest the most ("we're NOT getting back together") just before they cave. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but most guys would do anything not to move back in with the LBS. Surely he has friends or family he could couch-surf with, right?
Si I would take his moving back as a sign he's at least ambivalent.
As for the issue of GALing.....you may be right, if his complaint is that you were too involved in your own stuff, you may need to take a different tack. BUT - you need to be careful not to look like you're trying to win him back.
So - how does one do that difficult dance?
A few ideas: Read the Five Love Languages by Chapman and figure out his love languages. I'm betting one of his is quality time. So how do you "speak" quality time to someone who is leaving you? I had the same dilemma. What I did: A) No multitasking - if he was talking to me, I dropped what I was doing, looked him in the eye and listened. B) Be around - if my H was reading, I would sit on the same couch, instead of across the room or the next room. Not crowding him, just there. C) Go out - I know this sounds contradictory, but he needs to feel like you have heard him when he says it's over. Go out and do something where there might-maybe-be some remote possibility of another man sweeping you off your feet. Be subtle, not obvious. I went out dancing with my best girlfriend, H started to think about the possibility that some other guy might want me.
