I don't reccomend you expose the affair to people unless they are marriage friendly.. and no I don't consider people that will push you to divorce to be marriage friendly. Expose this to people who will support your choice to fight for your family and your marriage.. THEY are the people who can help you.
If you can imagine anyone on his end who would pressure him to come back to you and to end his affair expose to them as well... parents for example.
Whomever you can think of that will support your marriage being restored in whatever way they can is whom you expose to... if you do'nt think they will have any influence, do not waste your time on them.
If he is accustomed to talking to them on the phone for three times a week but he is pushing for a divorce he had better get used to one visit each weekend or some such.. that is what divorce is...
If he wants to "take care of his kids" he needs to NOT divorce.. there is a MOUNTAIN of statistics collected that prove divorce damages children long term. If he is thinking "they'll get over it" there is a ridiculous amount of data to prove otherwise...
And btw, you don't ASK him if OW is moving in with him like you have no say in the matter
You TELL him if SHE doesn't LEAVE then YOU AND your kids do NOT want ANYTHING to DO with him... If you read mb28's thread there's samples of protection phase letters explaining to him that you do not want to contact him.. they are excellent
If you could get a FT or someone to informally pass info to him that would be good, but I don't think you have anyone in that position... It is NOT pursuit if you get someone else to just inform him casually...
"She told me she mgiht be willing to move south, but she won't have anythign to do with you as long as you are having an affair -- and I honestly told her to just dump your sorry a$$"
Someone who can pass info like that is ONE way to negotiate without pursuiing... You don't look needy at all and he would always second guess the info as it is not first hand.
If he mentions moving somewhere else down there I would definitely press the no contact... If he thinks he can just stay down there with her and treat you like a baby sitter I would DEFINITELY be taking my dignity back... You accomplish this by taking your contact with him back... no emotional contact at all
read mb28's thread, at least the last three or four pages, it will get you up to speed on what I mean in mroe detail
I don't know if I mentioned it before but H isn't pushing for a divorce. He has never even mention the word. Just wanted to be separated. Not to say that he won't change his mind.
I read the last 5-6 pages of mb28's thread like you instructed and have drafted a letter to e-mail. I would like to slowly start the emotional backing away from H. I know if the kids could not talk to him, they would be heartbroken. I never initiate calls to him, I dial his number for the kids and the first voice that he hears is theirs. We usually chat afterward about the kids and bills, we say nothing pertaining to our situation. Here goes,
Dear H,
We love you and I married you for life. I want to remain married to you, and our children need their father. I am willing and committed to doing what it takes to being the spouse you've always wanted and to address the things that I did wrong in our marriage. This includes the kids and I moving to where you are.
Your affair is so painful for me and hurtful to our children that it will destroy the love I have for you and it will permanately injure our children.
That is all that I have. I don't think the no contact with the kids is doable at this time considering the geographic distance and he does not see the kids on a regular basis. I just want to let him know how I feel before I move on to more drastic measures. What does everyone think?
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
I would do what contact you must do with the chidlren, but you should not be involved in him contacting them... have someone else call the number and exit the call when done.
I would also make sure he knows he is NOT welcome back there to visit or on a permanent basis until the affair is ENDED
What you have there is good so far, but you arne't setting boundaries.. telling him teh affair must be ENDED is a sample boundary... otherwise you are just telling him you are his doormat and he can keep it up as long as he likes
Youc an at LEAST tell him YOU don't want to hear from him and the contact with his children will be minimal until the affair is over.
I have been mostly laying low and reading everyone elses sitch. Allen, I want to thank you again for your instruction on how to deal with a WH in an affair. I can't forget about the words of encouragement from everyone else also. I have not had the guts to go NC just yet. I guess fear is the deciding factor in that. Lately, I have been feeling feeings of hatred for my H and I really want to give him a piece of my mind.
I slipped up today and sent WH a text questioning why he decided to sacrifice his family for OW. Of course he sent me the standard reply about how his mind has been gone from the marriage for years and he tried to stay and make it work for the kids(lie). Also, he felt that it wasn't right to keep lying to me and himself anymore and that we brought the problems up in our relationship and would always avoid fixing them and then they would lead to bigger problems.
From what I have learned here, there is no reasoning with a person in an affair because it is a type of a addiction. Whatever you tell them, they will find a excuse for their behavior. My question is can I let my WH know that, whether he thinks so or not, he is in an addictive relationship with this OW and just like an addict, he will find fault in everything I say because I want to save my marriage and he does not.
I just didn't know if it was a good idea to call him an addict or not.
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
I just didn't know if it was a good idea to call him an addict or not.
It won't likley help. When I tried that I was just told I was crazy.. ironic I know...
And my wife has a hons degree in psychology... go figure
The bottom line : You can't reason with an addict. Breaking an addiction requires hard ball tactics.
Now, I will have those who disagree, and I honeslty don't think all affairs are addictions, one night stands for instance, are not... there's no time for an addiction to build up
But your H is giving you the classic lines addicts do
I love you but I am not in love with you Our marriage is over I don't feel the same way anymore I can't lie to you anymore
etc
Its all rationalization to continue the destructive behaviuor.
I know its hard to think of an affair to be like a drug addiction, but if you think of it like COMPUSLIVE GAMBLING then it makes a lot more sense.
And no, you can't reason with a compulsive gambler either, these are all addictions
Symptoms
1. Isolation 2. Lying 3. Decline of social circles 4. Paranoia (not always present) 5. Unstable lifestyle (bills go unpaid, late paying rent) 6. Living two lives/personas - one to OW and her friends, a different personal to you and your family 7. Defensiveness 8. Secrecy - maintaining as much as possible 9. Vague statements - avoidance of specific details 10. Moodiness 11. Acts/Expressions of intense guilt followed a day or so later by complete indifference
There are more, but your H is meeting this pretty squarely as is...
Telling you think he's an addict will most likley drive him further away I would think.
Interventions and family support/pressure to end the fantasy lifestyle is the most effective means to end an affair that I have read so far.
Your fear is that you may lose him yes? If he does divorce you, you will have to face that anyways. MWD is pretty clear on learning to face independence to begin with.
Its not just NC, at least in my opinion, NC should be followed up with your family and his protesting his infidelity, the harm he's doing to both you and his children, while you say nothing and keep quiet... a silent protest on your part, and an active vocal protest by your support team for him to end the nonsense and take ownership of his responsabilities.
Not to mention, telling him he's an addict is indeed blatant pursuit.
You want to make a return home more appealing... add a bit of mystery in there too... telling him he's an addict is hardly inviting him home again...
It MIGHT help to educate your support team a bit, so they realize what they are dealing with...
Warning : it is VERY HARD to educate people about infidelity as being an addiction. Most people are educated from Hollywood and just think its a Love Story with a messy ending.
There's a film called Unfaithful 2002 with Richard Gere and Diane Lane in it that covers it as an addiction pretty well. For the most part, people have a lot of trouble wrapping their head around it. And to make matters worse it comes as even less convincing from you since your husband is having an affair - you appear to the uneducated as if you are just getting desperate.
Many people diagnose affairs as MLC's, but to my mind that's a misdiagnosis.
My own experience of how my wife was during the heat of her affair and the complete turnaround now that its been over for months and her withdrawal is out of the way is night and day. I am fully convinced of this. Harley as well as others have made comparisons of the chemical breakdown in the brain of people having affairs and compared it to other addicts and found it to be the same imbalance problems taking place.
Once you understand this as an addiction, it helps a lot to know how to deal with them better. There's a good TV show that runs weeknights called Intervention as well.. good education there too.
My H is definately displaying most of those addiction symptoms. Your description about my fear of losing him is right. I guess I should not feel that way since he is already gone. I did answer his text and here is what I wrote;
I understand that the way we were interacting with each other in our marriage was the problem but that reason or any other is no excuse and does not justify stepping out on your marriage by way of infidelity. You had an obligation to us to explore all options before abandoning your family. You are going to find fault with everything that I say because you are cheating with another woman and I want to save our marriage. You are trying to force us to accept your choice of damaging our family without an honest effort to work things out.
I guess this was too abrasive to him and maybe I did word things wrong because WH got defensive(addiction symptom #7) and responded with;
Well, I see you want to see it your way so thats the way we will look at it then. I'm the bad person and I am the one now who made the mistake and have 2 live with it......its all my fault.
I am not trying to put the blame on him for everything. We were both at fault for the fall of our marriage but he choose the wrong way by way of another woman to exit our marriage. If my text was wrong to send, let me know. Should I reply to him?
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
It was defensiveness... its his addiction you are talking to, not him, don't waste the time.
It is also classic pursuit.
Here's the dyanmic
1. He cheats on you. 2. You ask him to stop hurting you and your children 3. He gets defensive and pouts, plays victim, gets angry 4. You feel bad, chase him, apologize, and he forgives YOU
And that cycle will repeat for YEARS if you continue the dyanmic.
Do NOT do step 4. This is the classic cycle.. you need to do something different... mainly, maintain step 2.
He is going to keep playing step 3 as long as YOU do step 4 after it.
its standard addictive behaviour... codependency on your part.
Its called enablement technically, when you make HIM feel better for cheating on YOU.
I see what you mean about me doing step 4 after him doing step 3. When I didn't answer him, he sent me a text that started off with "don't wanna bother you anymore but," As I look back over our entire 20 year relationship I can see clearly how codependent I have been on him. H gets mad about something that is probably not my fault anyways and I hurry and try to make things better just to make him feel better. I don't plan on doing step 4 anymore. I have realized that Codepdency is evident in mostly all of my relationships, including family too.
H says he will be coming up to visit the kids in less than two weeks and he has suggested that we can just sit and talk in person if I want to rather than text and talk on the telephone. I am guesssing he wants to have a relationship talk since he suggested this after I asked him why he would do this our family. I want to be prepared on what to say to him. Should I let him have his say, keep telling him to stop hurting me and the kids, or try to avoid this talk altogether?
Me:34 H:34 D:7 D:6 D:3 T:20years M:10years Bomb: Feburary 2009 Separated: May 2009 EA confirmed March 2010
If you have any strong support at home like a family member who DOES realize his affair is NOT solving anything and that it IS hurting you then have them THERE.
The idea is to confront him... not to have a secret little chat somewhere and solve it in private.
You make this a family meeting... do NOT warn him.
He shows up and there's twelve people in the room and he has to sit and listen to them all tell him he's failing as a husband, but that he has a rare opportunity to repair his marriage since you are willing to explore that.
He is told that he accepts that, or he LEAVES with no visit.
The thing is, there is no leverage on your part or consequences to him cheating. He cheats, and it causes HIM NO INCONVENIENCE.
This meeting is to cause him inconvenience. He will be told his infidelity will be exposed further to more people and that no one will talk to him etc.
If he realizes he is not just losing YOU, but his entire FAMILY and that he has a choice between
Public Humiliation Public Reconcilliation
He should choose the latter.
Right now we need to build up serious consequences for him to choose to continue infidelity.
And he will likley try to DENY it, do NOT have anyone in that room who isn't supporting of you or this intervention.
