Her heart has already left

[Puppy Dog Tails]

What do you mean by "dry run"? You mean, you sit by and wait to see if she prefers the OW over you???

[AmyBel]

What do you mean by "dry run"? You mean, you sit by and wait to see if she prefers the OW over you???

Yep. Sounds pretty damn demeaning doesn't it. Other than the fact that she'll look like a fool... I'll look like a doormat.

On the other hand, it would be a way to postpone the division of the house, income, health insurance (She's supporting me, I'm on her insurance... I have no way to get it, I'm about to graduate and am in internship, no job yet.), etc.

And might be the most straight forward option. On the other hand. I do have some self respect...

Really don't know how to think about it. I've heard of it working in midlife crisis situations. But, not in "fallen in love with someone else" situations.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Does she understand that you would be free to date other people as well?

[AmyBel]

Yes. She knows that if she wanders off to do a trial run with this old flame she is risking me losing patience, moving on, finding someone else, changing my mind...

She is still denying that it was a violation and mistake to speak out loud the feelings she had for her ex (our friend). Like, Um, DUH! When you are married and you notice feelings for someone outside the marriage you talk to your spouse and/or your therapist and create parameters to take space from the outsider 'til your feelings fade.

I've done it. (Which she knows)

Progress so far: Admit that she was in an Emotional Affair.
Suspend the EA for three months.
Admit that the phrase "I haven't acted on it" is a lie. "I haven't acted sexually on it" is true (she also admitted that she hugged the OW in the context of spilling their mutual guts and processing their emotional revelations. GRRRRRR)
Be willing to deviate from the contract we made with each other six months after we started going steady. (we both came from problem relationships.) and admit that perhaps 16 years later a little more than one month notice was called for. (I'm not a landlord, I'm a wife!) Though she only extended it to a total of 3 months, and is saying that the 3 months counts toward the 6 months total of "no dating" listed in the doc.
Be willing to consider more options than "divorce/no divorce", which says she may be willing to tolerate the pain of her two-mindedness.
Says she is working on our relationship during these three months.

I'm still aware of the brain tumor effect. E.g. she is acting uncharacteristically: She is distant. She is evasive. She is emotional. She is sad. She is spending more time taking care of me (in the sense that she is deciding what I feel and taking action based on that projection.) than speaking her own emotional truth.

I've been trying to do 180's:
Ask her curious questions rather than just do business with her when on the phone. (esp curious about her emotions.)
Consider giving up on the attempt.
Imagine my life without her, and focus on the possibly good aspects of that.
Hang up first.
Don't cajole when she doesn't want to do something I want her to do. Just say: I'm sure you'll pick the best choice.
Let her be the one to talk to family, instead of rescuing her from her pain.

I could probably use the help thinking of others.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Yes. She knows that if she wanders off to do a trial run with this old flame she is risking me losing patience, moving on, finding someone else, changing my mind...

I'm not talking about eventually. I'm talking about, if she leaves to date this OW, then you begin to date as well, and you let her know that.

When my wife and I were piecing, and openly talking about separation, I had always had a short list of "dealbreakers" (boundaries):

1. No dating other people.

2. We MC while separated.

3. We agree to a formal financial relationship and budget -- who-pays-for-what.

I wanted #1, because I wanted to know if her desire for "space" was just the standard script of "I want space so that I can pursue others," and maybe even thought she had her eye on someone specific. And my suspicions were raised even further, when she consistently FOUGHT me on #1 -- it was a DEALBREAKER for her.

Well, after a few months of this, I finally changed my mind. I was okay with the separation, and told her that upon reflection, I was actually looking forward to dating a little. Nothing serious, but just the opportunity for each of us to see what's out there, to see if we would miss each other, and we would date each other as well.

Well, you could have knocked her over with a feather! Suddenly SHE had a problem with the arrangement, and she was EXTREMELY upset that I wanted to date! I held my ground, calmly, told her there was no one specific in mind (there wasn't, but she didn't believe me), and that of course she was free to date as well.

All it took was ONE date of mine for my wife to want to FULLY reconcile!

Look, Amy, I'm strongly against the whole "Bo-Peep" thing, where you let them be with their OM/OW while you patiently wait for them to come home, wagging their tails behind them. If you spend ANY time looking at my past posts, you'll see that. But if you DO agree to it, you should damned well better let HER know, that YOU will be dating as well!

Puppy

[AmyBel]

On the one hand. She is a wounded animal. She has chemicals floating around in her brain. She has done something horrible and part of her knows it. She is having childhood stuff come up. She's in chaos and doesn't cope well with that. I feel compassion and I have vows, and self respect as a kind and loving person, to live up to.

I would do my best to ignore the biting and growling of any animal in a trap and try to help.

On the other hand her mistakes have been harmful to me. She has disrespected me. She has acted without compassion or consideration for me. She continues to expect me to be a doormat or she expects me to behave according to her projection and assumptions. She doesn't see ME. I don't trust her. She is behaving in unexpected ways. I'm angry, and have to protect myself.

I find myself in this dilemma over and over when trying to address this problem.

I will NOT lie, sneak, spy. That doesn't work with who I am and want to be. But I have access to Cell phone bills (research today revealed that the EA was going on before she recognized it.) and her e-mail and calendar (research today revealed she's having trouble coping w/ life). And she knows that I have access.

I believe my task is to find a way to take care of myself while staying true to my vows and my understanding of my best self.

I have a low tolerance for being ignored, dismissed, and disregarded by my wife. I have to control my urge to approach her as a result. I know that.

GAL, 180, be the better option... all well and good. The challenge is in the day to day living!

Yes, I would definitely date others, and I think I would cut her off, while she went off to do a trial separation/dry run. And there would be NO expectation that I'd wait for her.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Yes, I would definitely date others, and I think I would cut her off, while she went off to do a trial separation/dry run. And there would be NO expectation that I'd wait for her.

Good. I think that's healthy, and the only way to go should you go the separation route. "I'll be here, waiting," RARELY works.

I don't think there's really any need for you to snoop right now anyway. That only comes when you're attempting to verify a mutually-agreed-upon no-contact, as part of a transparency plan. Your wife has more or less TOLD you she can't/won't agree to no-contact, so snooping's only going to make you crazy.

I'm sorry you're having to go thru this. I know, it sucks.

Puppy

[AmyBel]

Talked with her dad today. he's as bewildered as i am, and very disturbed.

Talked to her tonight. She's really convinced that we didn't have the rule of no emotional affairs and no talking about attraction with the object of the attraction. She believes that since this is an ex and close friend she's an exception.

Please tell me that this is the serotonin and norepinephrine talking, and she'll eventually shake the infection and realize that there is no way to see marriage any other way, unless you explicitly lay out exceptions.

Don't know if she'll shake the 'in love' poisoning before she's take too many actions and done too much damage.

So sad.

[Marked&Healed]

Amybel, although I'm back here now, I did succeed (and then promptly let life get in the way and did not feed my M) - and here's my old sitch. I had regular sex with H to keep those attachment chemicals going, and in this thread he admits it may have helped us.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...true#Post538289

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Talked to her tonight. She's really convinced that we didn't have the rule of no emotional affairs and no talking about attraction with the object of the attraction. She believes that since this is an ex and close friend she's an exception.

Please tell me that this is the serotonin and norepinephrine talking, and she'll eventually shake the infection and realize that there is no way to see marriage any other way, unless you explicitly lay out exceptions.

It very well could be -- would certainly be "script." A wayward spouse all awash in looooove chemicals will certainly go thru all sorts of rewriting of marital history, moral parsing, etc. like this.

Or, she could just be a woman of poor moral character. What was she like BEFORE the re-contact with this past ex?

Puppy