I'm not sure what else to tell you. You are still trying to control her life. Trying to get her to move into the house instead of an apartment is an example.
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I can't believe she would rather move into a small apartment by herself instead of moving back into our house with the dogs.
She knows what you are doing! If "I" can see it.....she certainly does.
You don't like the fact that she hasn't helped with the house improvements, but what really bugs you is that you hoped that would be a reason to spend time together and it didn't work out like that.
Everything you say you wonder if it will effect her actions and then you are disappointed when it doesn't. You have to stop living like that.
She wants to live apart from you. She does not want any connections with you. If she moved back into the house, there would be a connection. You know that. You wanted to use that as a " life-line" to her.
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So I guess I shouldn't even mention the C in a nice way?
No. Stop trying to get her to go to C! She does not want it and you keep trying to get her to go. You are trying to control her. Stop it. Leave her alone.
I'm glad you are making changes in yourself but this is one area you don't seem to see clearly. Being strong & attractive does not go hand in hand with "controlling" her life. Let her make decisions without you trying to influence her. You are afraid of her decisions and I'm sure it shows. Her freedom & independence is so important to her right now.
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How can I challenge her?
You have been told, but it was not what you wanted to hear. You are not happy if you are not activily involved with her, but the secret is to be unavailable. You are too afraid to do that. You need to go dark and give her independence. In the meantime, you need to move forward with getting a more interesting life for yourself. Stop acting like a victim and start living life. Get involved in something outside of fixing the house.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Robox thanks. All very good points. I am listening to all of the advice given to me. It is very much appreciated as I try to save my M.
Couple of questions. When you say to be masculine to be attractive, I feel like I'm doing this by taking care of things with the house. Also, I feel like I am doing all of the things you say she needs to be challenged. I believe I am taking charge with the responsibilities. I haven't asked her for anything nor have I complained to her that she is doing nothing. It's confusing to me when you say that she wants to pursue. My question is how do I balance that? In other words, I don't want to appear that I am ignoring her when I don't answer her calls, yet I feel like I need to not be too available to her so she can pursue me. Is there a difference? Should I care if it upsets my W?
I continue to receive good advice here and I want to make sure I understand everything correctly.
The fact that she is going off her emotions, how do I change those emotions? I know to do what has been advised to me here but is there anything else or do I just need to wait it out? I'm worried that she will enjoy the new distance between us and then nothing I do will matter the longer we don't try to go to C. I am secure enough to admit that her and I should only talk about M with C as I am not always perfect responding to her emotions one on one right now.
Read your response to mine, I quoted it above. You sound so damn unsure of yourself, you sound weak, insecure, uncertain, etc. This is also the person that she is no longer attracted to, how could she be, what is attractive in any of these traits. You can't lead yourself let alone her, you aren't confident about yourself or what to do in your situation, you sound weak, insecure, scared, lonely, sad and your wife isn't going to be attracted to any of this.
I get it. This is all very unsettling, your world has been turned upside down like a big old box full of bits & pieces of junk that's been sitting in the garage for years and someone just grabbed it, turned it upside and poured out a big old mess and you don't know where to start and your first question is why did someone do this me? In the end, you're going to see that you did it to yourself, not now, it's too soon for that but several months or a year from now hopefully you will see why this happened and that it was actually a good thing, it's an opportunity for you to experience growth that very few people will get to experience - that is of course if you're up to the challenge.
When I say be masculine to be attractive (or something like that, that can't be a direct quote), I mean be a MAN. You know the funny thing, a couple of years ago when this all happened to me, if someone had said to me "BE A MAN!" I would have had a blank look on my face and asked "what do you mean? I was born a male?!"
Be a man. Do the research. Google it, find out what it means to be a man, a real man and not this person that you are right now.
Taking care of things with the house doesn't make you a man, anyone can own a home, so that's not it.
What responsibilities are you taking charge with that make you a man? Paying the bills? Anyone can do that, so that's not it either.
You haven't asked for anything, well that's a double edged sword, maybe that's part of the problem, you're not aggressive or assertive enough, when I want something, I sure as hell ask for it if I can't do it or make it myself. I get what I want in my life now, I make it happen, I don't wait for someone to put it neatly in my lap after being a good boy and getting rewarded. I reward myself by doing it myself, making it happen for me when I want it to happen. I just do it!
What confuses you about her wanting to pursue? That's weird that you don't understand that. If she doesn't want you anymore, don't you think she's pursuing something else?
Forget about balance right now, you're at one end of the spectrum, you need to experience the other end of the spectrum and then you can choose when to scale back and find "balance".
Don't answer her calls or answer them, it's up to you, do it because you want to do it but don't do it because you're afraid it will make her angry, that's definitely not masculine or manly to be afraid of someone's response.
You can't directly change her emotions, you can influence them a little. Currently she's against you because you're against her feelings/emotions, throw her a curve ball, agree with all of her emotions/feelings. She expects you to fight against all of this, go along with it willingly with a huge confident smile on your face.
As for her enjoying the distance between you too, yes I'm sure she is, maybe you should too ;-)
Sandi, I guess I am controlling. It's something I'm trying to improve. I feel like she won't come back. I've come to realize so many things I could have done better. I'm working hard to change them. All I want is a second chance. I can't believe after 19 years that she doesn't have love for me anymore but maybe she doesn't. It's so hard to wait and feel like there's so little I can do to help this sitch.
I am doing more things in my life to keep busy. I haven't had much choice lately but to spend most of my free time on the house since we need to sell it asap. I am frustrated that W hasn't helped but I figured she would work on the house when I wasn't there. I didn't think she would help when I was there.
I'll go dark and see what happens. Thanks again for checking in.
Steve, I'm working on that quote.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
There is always that chance that she won't come back......but you cannot make her, and that's what I'm saying. It has to be a choice.....her choice.
When my H was trying to force me to say I loved him or force his attention on me or try to force me into any particular situation......I felt such resentment toward him. That is the WAW! The more the H tries to pull her....the harder she resists. Have you read anything on the board about "dropping the rope"?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yes, I've know I need to drop the rope but it's so damn tough to do for the woman I love and want so much to be with again...my soul mate. I know things could change in time but right now she is determined to D. Like she told me two weeks ago that I need to let her go and she doesn't want to reconcile and she knows that I do. That's so tough to hear from the woman I have spent 19 years with. I know the things I did to make her leave. I know I brought this on myself. I wasn't happy being the person I was and that's why I am trying so hard to do the right things now.
Sorry to sound weak. I'm really just this way here as it's a good place to vent sometimes. I do remain strong in front of my W. I really need to do a better job of not controlling her. I know she will call me tomorrow about the house. She made sure to enjoy her weekend and not deal with it or me until Monday. I get it and hear her loud and clear. So now when I don't take her call and ignore her for days this week she will feel that I am playing games and purposely trying to get back at her. That's what's confusing to me about her pursuing. Is that her pursuing or just her trying to contact me about the house. If not for the house she would have no reason to call me. I know her...she will just see it as me playing games and see right threw it. She will think that it's the same old me. Anyway, I'll try it.
Thanks again for the help. I'm just feeling down this weekend because I keep thinking of all of the things I am missing out on sharing with my W.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
I'm actually weaning myself off the anti-depressants. I talked to my doctor and he told me how to do this safetly. I'm taking myself off for a few reasons. I don't think I need it anymore. It got me through the really tough time for the few months after my W left and I really needed the meds. I've been working with my IC on techniques to reacognize when I get depressed and ways to deal with it. I also felt like I was "numb" at times on the meds. I didn't feel like I could think correctly at times. I was tired more often too. I have about 2 more weeks until I am completely off the meds. If I find that I need the meds again I won't hesitate to take them again.
I'm in sales right now. It's not very satisfying but it is a job for now until I can find something better. I have a couple of prospects for a better job. I feel like nothing is as satisfying as when I owned my own company. I loved what I was doing and I miss it. Perhpas one day when the time is right I csn try it again. In the meantime I need to keep a job no matter what it is for now. This was a big reason my W left and I can't blame her for that reason. I also have a second side job that I enjoy. I just started it and like it a lot. I also sell real estate as a third job. Market is slowly getting better so hopefully I can spend more time with that career. My first choice is to sell real estate full time when the market improves. Problem is my W was so worried all fo the time about me not having a regular 9-5 job. If we ever did reconcile, I'm not sure how she would feel about my selling real estate full time especially since my previous company (in another type of business) closed.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
MZA, what were you like as a single man? Did you have women pursue you? Did you ever play hard to get?
I guess I have a hard time understanding why this is so difficult for a man to catch hold of.
Sandi, I really never was a single man I guess. When I met my W I was 18 and she was 16. We dated each other exclusively and then married in our mid 20s and have been together ever since. So I never really had too many woman pursue me other than my W. I don't think I remember playing hard to get but I do remember that my W did pursue me when we first dated.
I guess what I have trouble understanding about the pursuing thing is that I'm not sure ignoring my W means she would be pursuing me for the right reasons. Does it even matter the reasons? For example, she emailed me this morning (I knew she would) about the house. She told me she knew Sundays are usually busy for me so she didn't want to contact me until today. She asked if tonight would be a good time to talk. She asked about the mortgage and about bringing in someone to clean the house. She mentoned she talked to the realtor about what price to list the house. Even though I'm a realtor, we decided to use someone else as it seemed like something my W wanted. I actually want to list the house but my W said it's too emotional and would be easier for someone else to list it. If I had listed the house my W wanted me to sign something agreeing to give my commission and apply it to the mortgage if we didn't sell the house to cover the full amount of the mortgage. I told her that I would do the right thing and use my commission for the mortgage only if we didn't get enough money in the sale of the house to cover the mortgage but I would not sign anything. She originally wanted her L to draft an agreement for this. I told her she would have to trust me, that I would not sign that ridiculous agreement. Otherwise I told her to use another real estate agent. She didn't want me to list our own house if I didn't sign the agreement so that's when we decided to use another realtor. I felt like her wanting me to sign that agreement was extremely controlling. Anyway, also in her email today she also asked me what I thought about her planting flowers in the front yard to add some curb appeal. I guess not a big deal but is it really that important to even ask my opnion? If she wants to plant flowers then she should just go ahead and do it. Why ask me? Why would she care about anything I have to say right now? She's clearly wanting a life without me so why care what I think about something so trivial as planting flowers? Again, I know it's not a big deal but I feel there are more important things to worry about...our M for starters.
So again, there is my question about the pursuing. I feel like if I don't respond to her she will think I'm playing games. Is it being a man to ignore things we need to discuss? IDK, I can see both sides of the coin on that one. I can not respond and make her wait for a few days before getting back to her. Shouldn't her pursuing me be for wanting to talk to me about reasons other than the house? Please set me straight so I can understand this once and for all.
Thanks, Steve, Sandi and Robx.
Last edited by mza8; 03/22/1004:57 PM.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
what is wrong with being busy with aspects of YOUR life or the life you would like to re-define for YOURSELF, so that you cannot make time for her every whim and demand?
its not being rude it is being busy.
I used this analogy the other day, and I think it is valuable. watch a show or a video about Coral Reefs. Take notice how much life there is. Its not necessarily the "other fish in the sea" cliche. But rather, life is diverse and exciting and if you miserate and depress yourself over an aspect such as a job or a marriage you are really missing out on alot of adventure that may define who you havent realize you are yet.
dont spend time thinking or worrying if i am unavailable and adventurous she may take notice and come back. it doesnt matter. it is not for her it is for you. if she does come back she will not be able to fill every aspect of your life. you will need to keep growing mentally, physically, emotionally yourself. that is life.
