How do I expose the affair

[june72]

This man is so selfish it is frustrating to read about.
I like Allen's ideas.

If this guy wants so badly to D to "help" you. Let him attend a session or two with your therapist and argue his logic with the therapist and not you. Just like Saffie after her attempt the therapist told her husband that the husband's behavior was making things worse.

Have you talked at all to the OW's husband? What ever came of that?

I know you may want to take a break from the drama and not contact the OW husband also.

I am so frustrated at your husband- as if HE know's what is best for you and not you.

Stay strong! Do not let him suck you down into despair.

[flowmom]

I disagree with Allen's advice to try to argue, cajole, and guilt trip your H into delaying the D. Following that advice is not a wise choice for your mental health right now. Allen means well but IMO mb you need to concentrate on yourself and it sounds like you get that now. Go dark for YOU. Deal with business by email or mail or professionals.

(((mb)))

[Allen A]

June, nice idea.

Here mb28, you can try this one on him if you want :

HUSBAND : We need this divorce as soon as possible so you get better.

YOU : You REALLY want to help?

HUSBAND : Yah

YOU : This divorce you want is REALLY to make ME feel better?

HUSBAND : Sure...

YOU : Then ASK me if it will make me feel better instead of TELLING Me it will..

HUSBAND : But...

YOU : Why don't you pay a visit my therapist and tell HER!?

HUSBAND : I don't need to do that...

YOU : Because SHE -- and I -- think it will put me RIGHT back in the HOSPITAL.

HUSBAND : I don't want to argue.

YOU : You need to start showing MY feelings some RESPECT, first by ASKING me what they are instead of TELLING ME.

HUSBAND : A divorce is best for everyone.

YOU : You are NOT going to bully me into agreeing with you and giving you what YOU want.. I just got out of the HOSPITAL and you are pushing this on ME? This is FOR YOU... you SELFISH man.. you are a HORRIBLE FATHER TO THESE CHILDREN RIGHT NOW... you should be a shamed of yourself forcing a divorce on them when their mother doesns't want it. If you think when they get older I am not going to tell them how you are behaviing you are msitaken... these kids are going to know EXACLTY who wanted a divorce here.. and its NOT ME.

And walk away.

[Allen A]

Flowmom, I am actually hoping mb28 can get someone ELSE to argue this stuff to him.. MB28 is the LAST person I would want to see have to make these arguments.

I said earlier to at LEAST have a friend there if your husband is there so he will temper his bullying...

I am NOT suggesting she get into a HUGE fight... I would RATHER someone ELSE fought for her.. I have been reccomending a protection phase for a LONG TIME NOW... please don't misinterpret this as reccomendatins for direct confrontation.. its just SAMPLE arguments...

[flowmom]

Flowmom, I am actually hoping mb28 can get someone ELSE to argue this stuff to him.. MB28 is the LAST person I would want to see have to make these arguments.

I said earlier to at LEAST have a friend there if your husband is there so he will temper his bullying...

I am NOT suggesting she get into a HUGE fight... I would RATHER someone ELSE fought for her.. I have been reccomending a protection phase for a LONG TIME NOW... please don't misinterpret this as reccomendatins for direct confrontation.. its just SAMPLE arguments...

I know that you share my concern for mb. I guess I just think that even asking mb to find someone who will argue on behalf of the M is not the right focus for her right now. And realistically, that will be seen as pursuing by her H anyway and it's not likely to help.

[Allen A]

Flowmom, I am concerned for the harm a hurried divorce will do to everyone over there, not to mention this will put OWH's marriage in jeapoardy as well since WS here will be free to attack that after a divorce on his end.

And no, it won't be pursuit as long as mb28 is not involved to my mind... H won't like it, but just hiding out hoping for the best .. I can't see that helping anyone in the long run.

There is risk of harm to mb28 in allowing her husband into bullying her into a divorce as well.

I really don't like the situation either way. Divorce hurts people, and arguing for marriage hurts too...

The healthiest route as far as i see it is ask others to support you in having a talk with H to temper any drastic changes in a person's life right now...

Forcing or bullying your spouse into divorce isnt' going to make her any healthier either really... but I do unerstand people only can take so much...

I have been reading a lot of articles on the damage divorce does to children for the better part of the afternoon... I dont' blame any parent for doing what they can to stave off being bullied into divorce...

Its shocking how much damage divorce can do to a child, I hadn't been aware how much research was available until I started reading this afternoon.. there's miles of it.

[saffie]

Its shocking how much damage divorce can do to a child, I hadn't been aware how much research was available until I started reading this afternoon.. there's miles of it.

I am really interested in this Allen. I have never read much about this apart from 'pop' articles, all of which seem to focus heavily on the negatives on children to do with D.....and some saying that it was even harder when the children were older- late teens and beyond. Luckily I didn't have to look into it re my own children.

From personal experience, I can only say I welcomed my parents separation.( Strangely they have never gotten D'd and now live across the road from one another after many years of living about 45 mins away from each other). I welcomed the lack of continual hostility and the permanent dread of when the next row would ensue. There was no infidelity involved in my parents split, ( my father's alcoholism and verbal and sometimes physical abuse was the problem). I remember vividly sitting in my bedroom singing with my sister to drown out the noise of what was going on below us. The separation was the best thing that could have happened. Caused my father to sober up too. It was the day after my 8th Birthday that my mother walked out taking myself and my 11 year old sister.

Does any of your reading say anything at all about there being any positives to D for the children? I am really interested.

Although I fought hard for my M, as has my H now, we both agreed it had to be because we wanted to be with each other and not 'just for the sake of the children'.

Sorry. I haven't been readn=ing this thread and so am probabalt butting in and going off subject horribly.....but as you mentioned it, I was just wondering about it.

[june72]

Gosh, Flowmom,
Mb has to have a prepared response since I am certain her husband is not going to drop the D talk (since he is selfishly trying to aleive his guilt)

Saffie, there are stats somewhere. There are databases pertaining to psychology and peer reviewed articles and they would have the info. I am certain there is more than 'pop' articles. there is a scientific basis and the studies have to be "peer reviewed". I think Psychoinfo is one such database that most University's have (usually free to anyone who would like to access). Pubmed.gov may have some stuff also. You can just google for "statistics" and ".gov" or ".edu" for more authoritative stuff

[june72]

Sorry, mb this is for Saffie, my experience with D as a child

My experience with D as a child? Not too much better than the drama that was going on preD. If my parents had actually worked on themselves instead of the cr@p they did if would have been best of all.
Mother and father fought wildly pretty much every night and my sister and I would feel obligated to console each parent. Eventually father attacked our mom in front of us and strangled her. She did not D him right away.

The D process was HELL!!!! It went on for a long time, Years. We as children were as which parent we wanted to be with- horrible! Father attempted suicide twice with all this. Parents bcame completely broke cashing in all our savings and our college money.

Post D has to spend weekends one hour away from friends with a miserable dad in a tiny trailer. Well, he was broke what else could he afford. Trailer has bugs and mice and smelled of propane fuel during the winter. We sat and smoked cigarettes all day long and listen to my father nonstop bash my mother endlessly. It was endless in torture. I hated going over there. Hated it!!! But guilt made me go, since he would often say that his children are the only reason his is still living. May be true but don't tell your kids that.
I was the go-between. My parents did not speak so all messages were relayed by me. I would have to clean up my father's response since it usually was full of profanity. My mother and father would have their arguments thru me- nice....
I also was the one that both parents now turned to confide there adults issues- money, job, stress, etc. I would listen to my father worry that he would get laid off or my mother would ask my advice about the latest mental hospital my sister was admitted to. Did I think it was good? bad? ugg...

I was isolated, alone, sad. Honestly it would have been nicer if my parents worked on things. My father had severe depression after losing his job. We had moved from NYC about 4 years earlier- leaving all his friends and family and he did not fit in well. He was considered to abrasive for a small town but the norm for downstate.

My mother always dealt with severe anxiety, always in denial. When my father lost his job- she lost it and was on him NON STOP. It was endless the badgering, my father withdrew more and more. Spiral down...

Anyhow,
glad they D for the short term b/c the anxiety and stress was bad as a child. Very bad. Eggshells all the time. The D crap did not make things better.
I would have rather they worked on things


20 years later my mother and father became friends again a few months b4 he died. He always loved her and never moved on in a way. She remarried to an emotionally abusive man. Not a suprise since she did not D my father after the strangling incident it was a year later she then filed. Neither ever addressed the issues they each had that caused the marriage demise and they suffered for it.

That is my experience. Work on it, fix it.
Of course it takes 2 to fix a marriage.... so...

[Allen A]

I just typed Divorce Children Risk into Google, there's pages and pages of stuff...

The thing is. your description of hosuehold conflict, yes, separation should occur.

I woudl reccomend protection for mother and children for any sort of substance abuse or addiction, including infidelity.


NO child should have to be exposed to hosuehold conflict, but I don't think divorce is a viable solution to that from what I am reading. They have double the risk of growing up with emotional problems - insecurity, etc

Phil McGraw says something I love quoting :

Children are better of being from a broken home than being in one.

So, sure, if the household is a mess, get them out of there... but what about a third option?

a. Divorce
b. keep family together in perpetual conflict
c. Pursue therapy to fall in love again

Everyone just thinks a looks so great when they are in the middle of b. And they feel so hopeless they think c is just history...

If you look at pp 21- 22 of MWD's Divorce Remdey she's done extensive research on divorce and its effects on families.. it does NOT make families better off... its right in MWD's own book... don't need to look further than that.

Apprently Deprssion is three times as high in divorced women as it is in married women... lovely statistic that is... read those pages, MWD spends her whole first chapter blasting divorce... she does a wonderful job.

Now, I wouldn't reccomend this if mb28's husband was a violent alcoholic etc, but that's not at all what we are dealing with here.

We are talking about a man who less than a month ago broke down and hugged his wife and told her he loved her... does that sound like a man who is ready for divorce?

I think that sounds like a man who hasn't explored marriage therapy much if at all and thinks Divorce is a wonderful solution...

mb28 has characterized her husband as being quite loving and affectionate, maybe a bit stubborn and emotional, but certainly not a horrible man. He wasn't getting as much attention according to mb28 so he went elsewhere or it...

This does NOT sound like a marriage that's hopeless and should be tossed in the garbage does it?

Divorce is NOT going to make things any better.

In your case Saffie, yes, mabye your parents would not have been able to work things out... Alcoholism is a terrible addictiont o have to wrestle with... I had to deal with it in my own home...

I don't see a hopeless marriage here.. but I do see a tragedy that Mr mb28 is charging twoards blindly and bullying his wife into accepting.