My husband and I met as teenagers and have been together ever since. At the beginning of our marriage he did not work (he played a lot of computer games) and I supported us. He had never even graduated high school and never bothered to get a GED, but didn't want to work entry-level jobs (he thought he was too good to work retail or fast-food). Finally, after over a year of this I vouched for him with my employer and got him a job where I work. He did well at that job working for a MAJOR client and turned it into something more. Our dream was for him to get hired on full-time with said client (a very large, very respected company) and move our family to the Northwest coast.
During this time we had a son and I decided to quit work and become a stay-at-home-mom. It wasn't easy, my husband took this as permission not to participate in the parenting or housework since I was the SAHM and it is my job. It became a large point of contention between us. Every time I wanted him to give DS a bath, or change a diaper he threatened to make me get a "real job" since I am making him do mine. This has gotten frustrating and I admit I am resentful. He also is very verbally abusive when angry and I have been called a whole slew of nasty names over the course of our relationship (from white-trash to dumb b*%ch. This has interfered with our intimacy. He says I don't love him because I don't show him enough affection. I say I need him to be more respectful and less verbally abusive before I can feel more affectionate to him. He says he doesn't want conditions on my affection and if I loved him I'd want to be intimate with him regardless. We go round and round on this one, we've never gotten anywhere.
Just two weeks ago he went on a business trip and got the job offer (and huge salary boost) we'd been waiting for. Then he came home, had 'welcome back' sex, them immediately told me he wants to separate. He still wants me to move across the country with him (though he doesn't have to move for his job, he works remote and can do it anywhere), take care of our son and his home, but we will be romantically and emotionally separated. He said he was going with or without me. He admitted that it isn't ME he wants to live with, that he can't stand living with me, he just doesn't want to be so far away from his son. He assures me he will not leave me high and dry (like if he meets another woman), but I do not feel so confident in this. Especially since he gets SO angry and so passive aggressive. What he says now won't necessarily be what he DOES in the moment when he is angry with me. And regardless, I feel he is already leaving me high and dry. This has been our goal for years! I sacrificed my time just like he did! We would stay up late at night talking about this, what-iffing what we would do when it happened, making grand plans. And now that we made it he wants to dump me! Sure, he's offering me what is basically a nanny/housekeeper position for no pay or security, but this is just using me I feel. I don't know what to do, but what I want is to keep the marriage together. These were my goals too, I helped him achieve them. I sacrificed for his goals, made them ours, and as soon as their reached he wants to move on!
And what to do now?
I've already started taking the GAL advice. Being a SAHM I especially need to do this. My life for the past three years has been dedicated to raising our son, managing the house, and supporting my husbands work efforts. My goals and hobbies fell by the wayside (my husband thinks if something doesn't earn money it isn't as important as what he's doing - because he earns the money for the house. When I wanted some time each day to work on my writing he said no because it doesn't have much potential for earning money like how he spends his time). So I am remedying this. I am going to the salon today for the first time in over a year to get my hair done. I'm making myself up every day and dressing nice and doing things for myself and it has helped me feel better.
Still, I don't know what to do. I feel so betrayed and offended by all this that even though I know I want my marriage to work, I want to scream and yell at him for being this way, it's really hard being civil to him right now! Especially since he keeps making quips and rubbing it in my face that we're separated. He also doesn't understand why I am so upset by all this.
(((LadyJane))) Welcome to this wonderful forum of support. I hope you get as much out of your time here as I have.
I can relate to some of what you've written, especially about how being the mother/SAHM role has undermined my H's respect for me. It's very tricky and I know a few mothers who choose to work partly because they don't want to be in that kind of power imbalance with their husbands.
Your H's verbal abuse is unacceptable. You need to start setting boundaries around that. I find that dealing with angry men it doesn't really work to talk back to them because they just into a froth. The best thing to do is stay calm, say "we can't talk if you're going to speak to me that way", and leave the room. If he follows, leave the home. You will get some blowback from setting boundaries like this, but you will also gain respect for yourself and from him over time. Doormat behaviour is not going to save your M.
I hate to say it but there may be an emotional or physical affair going on. I don't know if there is in my case, but affairs are a common trigger for wanting to separate.
Right now you have to walk a tricky walk.
First, concentrate on your child first. Protect her from conflict as much as you can. Be part of the sunshine of her life. That focus will really help you.
Second, don't expect your H to care about you or act in your best interest. He wants to push you away, for whatever reason, and the only person who you can count on to take care of you is you. Don't agree to any changes that are not in YOUR best interest. It's unlikely that moving to another city would be in your interest, for example. You might have to call his bluff on some of that stuff and he may back down when he realizes some of the implications of what it would mean for him to move away without you and his son in terms of separation/D. If there's anything you need to do to protect yourself then do it right away. Your H can't force you to move and he might be shooting himself in the foot legally if he moves by himself (check with a L).
Third, I recommend that you start DBing today. If you haven't read Divorce Remedy, go out and get it and read it from cover to cover. A lot of the basic strategies of DBing aren't regularly discussed here in the forum, so it's important that you get this vital info.
Here's something that sandi posted in my first thread:
Quote:
I often give this list to newcomers as a guide or work plan b/c it is a summery of DB's 180's. Hope it will help.
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off! 2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only! 4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject. 6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse. 7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence. 8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.) 9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better. 10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) 11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.) 12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice. 14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go. 15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative. 16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also. 17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. 19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that. 20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf. 21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight. 22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake. 23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel! 24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works! 25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. 26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). 27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake. 28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only. 29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. 31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them. 32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared. 33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return. 35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary. 36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
No matter what happens you have long road ahead of you. Take it one day at a time, get as much support as you can, get in IC if you possibly can, and try not to take your H's words and actions personally, because there is something up with him and it's not your fault.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
Me: 45 WAW: 45 | M22 | T25 | No Kids Nov 09 W Filed | Dec 09 Separation Mar 17 2010 Divorce Papers Signed | Divorce Hearing Cancelled Moved back home May 2010 PA Confirmed June 2010 | W left Dec 7 2010
What state are you in now? I think you should check the divorce laws there and if they are more in your favor, stay. If not, go ahead and move to Washington and establish residency, if that's where he's going. At least here, you will be entitled to child, as well as spousal support. And any judge in Washington would see you as a perfect candidate for spousal maintenance.
And yeah, I'm talking D here because I'm practical that way. You need to protect yourself and your son. Do not do nothing, hoping he will change his mind. Unfortunately, I do not see that happening. You married way too young, he was a slacker, seems to have absolutely no respect for you, and now you are stuck.
But believe it or not, his being so arrogant and full of himself is actually a plus right now. Back off, for the moment, while you gather intel, try to sock away some F-You money, and get your ducks in a row.
It is unfortunate that you trusted him enough to decide to be a SAHM. Was this a mutual decision? Really?
But you obviously have job skills, so that is a huge plus. I cringe every time I see a traditional, 1950's model for marriage because you simply cannot trust anyone but yourself. Times have changed. SAHM's are extremely vulnerable to the whims of the h.
And the sad fact is that often times, h's will say they want you to not work and concentrate on the kids, but they begin to resent it. However, if he never told you he would prefer that you quit your job to stay home, you sitch is even more dire. Unfair as it is, you are now viewed as less valuable or exciting, because he now has a taste of what you once had. You created a monster, as they say.
And lastly, I must ask you, do you really think that staying with him is the best thing for you and your baby? He calls the mother of his child nasty names, uses you to get his rocks off, right before he informs you he wants to separate, and a variety of other disrespectful things.
Do you really think he can change? Do you really want your son to grow up with a dad who treats his mom this way?
How old are you guys and how long have you been married?
We are 26 and 27 and we've been married almost 8 years.
A major concern of mine has always been his language and his name calling. In fact, it's the ONLY real problem I have. I could work with his absentee-parentism and long work hours. It's the name-calling I can't handle. Every time I've tried to bring it up recently he says he does it because he is frustrated with me that I don't give him affection. But he's been doing this since the beginning of our marriage and I try to explain to him that it is something that kills the affection between us. But he just wants to blame me. I can't discuss this with him without him bringing up everything I've ever done wrong to make him feel like cussing me out. It's exhausting. I have worried that DS is going to grow up and behave the same way, but once again when I bring up my concerns with H he just tells me that if I didn't do such-and-such thing, or if I was just a little more this-or-that, then he would be happier and the name calling wouldn't happen.
As far as an OW or EA, it is a possibility. There have been some 2am phone calls to and from a single female co-worker but when I asked him about it he said she was just a friend and why do I have a problem with him making friends? Would I be upset if he talked to (guy friend) at 2am? I'm just trying to control him, blah blah... So I just told him I didn't think it was appropriate for a married man to be having late-night phone calls with single women, friends or not.
I have an appointment with a counselor this week to discuss all this stuff with.
LJ, unfortunately it sounds like you a big RED FLAG of an A right there. Whether or not it is physical, your H has decided that the grass is greener somewhere else and that is why he wants to separate. I suggest that you learn as much as you can but do not confront him with anything without getting advice from the pros here (you'll know them by their high post counts).
The name calling is nasty. Right now unfortunately you shouldn't discuss that with your H, because that would be talking about the R, which is not a good idea in your sitch. Just leave the room when he does it...don't stand there and let him do that to you. That's something to work on if the opportunity for reconciliation comes up. Right now you need to play your cards carefully and stay calm and collected.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
Well, apparently he talked to OW AGAIN last night and told her I was upset about the 2am phone calls. Now SHE wants to talk to ME. Apparently she wants to assure me the relationship is just platonic and she wants to be my friend too. I really don't know how to handle this one. It all seems really strange. Husband goes on business trip, meets woman (in person) for the first time (she is a coworker of his), comes home and starts having 2am phone conversations with her the very first night he's home, and tells me the morning after he comes home he wants to separate but me still move to WA with him.
I don't think there is or was a physical affair going on with her (maybe an EA is starting up), but since she lives where we are supposed to be moving it makes me feel even less secure moving across the country with my husband as a "separated" couple. But this is all a bummer because I don't like the state we live in now (hate the climate) and I've been dreaming for years of moving to WA. I want to move there so bad!
But now my husband is telling me he never said he wants to separate, he just wants us to acknowledge what our marriage is, romantically uninvolved with no chance to resolve our problems, and staying together like that for the sake of DS. He says if I don't go to WA with him under these conditions it will be ME leaving HIM, not the other way around. (BTW, he DID say he wanted to separate, multiple times. He kept reminding me every time I'd get excited about WA. I know I was not just hearing things...)
Hi Lady Jane, when exactly is this move going to occur time frame wise?
Does your H own up to any of his responsibilities in the issues with your marriage or does he dismiss them and put everything off on you?
The issues that you have mentioned with the verbal abuse are big. You have to really address that issue while dealing with the rest of this.
One thing I will caution you on from experience is that you cannot allow it to consume you and sit back procrastinating on the what if's.
If your H has said he wants to seperate and still live together with you playing the same role, give him what he wants. Start working on your independance again. Start job hunting. Start working on transitional schedules where he has time with your kid and you have time with your kid.
Give him a huge dose of reality. Make it clear that your not going to just sit back and rest on your duff believing his bullshitt. Sometimes calling the bluff is a sure way to get them to lay their hand down.
Look for Jobs where you are now, as well as in the Wa area. Turn the tables on him, tell him you don't really care about his promises of not leaving you high and dry and that you will protect yourself from it just in case. Trust is earned and he is not earning it.
He is at the very least having an EA with this woman. 2 am is ridiculous unless he works 3rd shift or something. You are spot on by the way, it is inappropriate for a married man to be talking to single women at all hours.
When people come here they are hurting and looking for help. Unfortunately sometimes that turns them defensive instead of offensive. The term fake it until you make it is very suitable for your situation. Maybe you need to put on your superman cape for a bit and not let him see any defensiveness or fear.
Exert your independance rather then falling back on your dependance on him. If he really wants to push you away, let him...for now. You see if he pushes you away and you fight it and he pushes some more and you fight it and he pushes again and you finally give up, he will say "see I knew all along you didnt want me".
Instead jump ahead on him. Tell him you do want your marriage, but you will not play a game of unrealistic life choices with him. Take a strong approach and push back a little. Let him know that things have to change, his abuse, your intimacy issues, and your marriage in general otherwise it just won't work anyway.
Sometimes when situations like yours occur they are a gioft rather then a punishment. I know it sucks dealing with all this garbage, but in the long run it may just be just what you and your relationship needed to stop the cycle that it has fallen victim to.
Now we are supposed to moving in 4 months. When he dropped the bomb we were actually supposed to be moving in 2 weeks, but that changed due to some outside circumstances.
Sometimes my H owns up, but it's barely owning up. It's like this: "I know the name-calling isn't right and I shouldn't do it, but what you do (not being affectionate enough) is worse," or "Yes, I know it's wrong but if you would just 'do this, or not do that' I wouldn't get so mad."
I guess you can say that he's not really owning up at all.
Thanks for all the advice, I am definitely taking it all to heart.
