Looking for help with WAW

[mza8]

Journaling.

Not much new to report. I was busy GAL this weekend, good weekend. After my W and I spoke last Tuusday about house, we agreed that she would look over information I gave her so we could come up with a price to list the house for sale. I didn't hear from her so I called and left a message for her on Thursday to see if she decided on the price for the house. She didn't call me back. I saw her at our gym Thursday night. I asked her if she received me message. She said she did but didn't get a chance to call me back and asked if she could call me on Friday. I said ok and then left her alone. Conversation was only 1-2 minutes. I didn't want to bug her. Friday came and went with no phone call from W. She finally called on Saturday afternoon saying she wanted to talk about house. I had plans this weekend and didn't call her back. She emailed me Sunday night saying that she left me a message on Saturday and to call her when I had a chance to discuss house. I emailed her back late Sunday night to say that I will call her today, that was it.

I'll call her today so we can discuss what we need to discuss. I just don't get it though. She will act like she is so focused on getting rid of the house but yet doesn't call me back for days to discuss it. In tne meantime I'm doing all of the work to fix it up and call the realtor, etc. Just like during our M, I am doing the legwork to take care of things. If this is so important to her then why does she take three days to get back to me? Where is her mind right now? Does she have thoughts that she won't share with me of maybe not wanting to sell house? I don't know and I try to keep myself from trying to figure her out. My W seems stuck right now. I don't think she is out there living it up right now. She isn't going forward with anything she says. She told me she was getting an apartment but now tells me she doesn't know when that will happen. She tells me we need to put the house for sale right away but yet she delays getting back to me to discuss it. Meanwhile I'm busting my a$$ getting the house ready. What gives here?

W and I are still friendly when we talk. I wonder if anything I told her last weekend about not wanting the D and saying that I would like us to go to C when she's ready, had any affect on her? Could that be why she was delaying? Not so much because she doesn't want to sell the house (which I'm fine with), but maybe because she was thinking about what I told her? Who knows I guess? I'm just staying focused on taking care of the responsibilities for now.

I'm at the point now when I think about this, that I feel like this is so ridiculous not to be able to talk about our M. I feel like enough time has passed and the shock of it all is over, for me. I feel like I can be calm and have honest discussions with each other and try to move our M forward. I have examined the sitch and realize many of the things I could have done better in our M. I can accept my faults and have already taken huge steps to correct them. I can see how this affected my W. Needless to say this has been an eye opening experience for me. It woke me up. In my opinion if there is still love (there is on my end and I think there still is on my W's end), then I truly believe my M can realistically be saved. Neither one of us is seeing anyone else, so that's one less hurdle to deal with.

I know this is how I feel now and not how my W feels right now. That's ok. I know this took her a long time to come to this decision. I regret that I made her feel she needed to do this. Clearly my actions did not give my W what she needed. All of those things were simple things I could and still can fix. Hopefully it's not too late.

I want to send my W a short email telling her the things I have come to realize that I did wrong in the M and explaiin how this might have made her feel. I don't want to say I "know" how she felt because I truly don't. Only she knows how this made her feel but I am trying to understand. I want to tell her that I now know that perhaps at times I didn't make her feel understood, valued, or cared for. Let her know I can see how I smothered her. This would be all I would say. Keep it short. I wouldn't ask anything from her, just let her know these things. Good idea or not? Would it be considered pursuing to send this type of email?

[mza8]

Need to vent. Thought I might be seeing small changes in W over the past week but unfortunately she seems to remain the same. I've been working on the house after work until midnight each night to finish the work to get it ready for sale. I talked to my W this past Monday about selling the house. At the end of the conversation I asked W if she would want to move back home instead of her getting an apartment. I said that she could live here alone and I would stay at the other place I'm living.I even offered to give her back the dogs if she wanted. I offered to pay half for the joint house bills. This would mean she could stay at our house for less than what an apartment would cost. I told her that I wanted to do this for her so she could be by herself so she had time to think about what she wanted. I asked her to really think about it this week and let me know her decision by this weekend. So I get to the house today to do more work and my W had taken the last few pieces of her furniture this morning. I called her this morning and she said she had a moving company out early this morning. I told her that I guess this means she didn't want to move back and that she was moving forward getting her apartment. She said yes, she appreciated my offer but she wouldn't be moving back and would be getting her own apartment. Unbelievable. I'm upset, dissapointed, depressed,... don't know what to do now?

This womans heart is so cold. I can't believe she would rather move into a small apartment by herself instead of moving back into our house with the dogs. This is a tough one to deal with for me today. I feel like no matter what I do, none of it works. I figured doing all of this work would show her how serious I am about changing and being responsible. I guess maybe it is over. It's been 5 months since she left.she can file for D in 7 more months. She seemed to be much friendlier lately. I thought she was beginning to soften. Boy was I wrong. It's unbelievable to me what a good actor she is...acts friendly but it's all just to be civil so we can sell the house and she can move on. Did I mentuon she has done absolutely nothing to hekp get the house ready to sell? It's been all me again. I'm getting tired of banging my head against the wall. I'm tired of not seeing any progress. What does it take? Maybe it's time to give up? This sucks.

Sorry, just needed to vent. I've been working so hard lately on the house and everything in my life to be the man I should have been for my W years ago. Maybe she truly has fallen out of love with me.

[mza8]

Sandi, if you're out there I could use another 2x4.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what I can do better. It's been 5 months and my W doesn't seem to be budging. I think I've done a pretty good job giving her space. When we do communicate I am cheerful. I have been argeeing with her with plans to sell the house. I validate the rare times she brings up anything with the M. I'm not argumentative when she says something I disagree with, be it the house, financials or R talk. Definitely a 180 for me.

For myself I have my new job. Starting my second job. Still staying bust GAL. Exercise regularly, go to church, read books, try to stay positive, etc. I continue to do all of the things I should have done in my M. I've been busting my butt fixing up this house. Yes, a part of me would have loved for my W to move back in (even if it was just her for now to give her time for her), but the work is also so that we can sell the house.

The past week has been wonderful and sad. Wonderful because I've been back in my house fixing it up. I miss being here. It's sad though because everything is so familiar. Talking to my neighbors, listening to the birds in the back yard, etc. The weather has been great and I keep thinking how my W and I would always grill when the weather was nice. Makes me sad to think that part of my life is over.

My W has done absolutely nothing to help with the house. Sometimes it upsets me, makes me not want to do any more work on the house. But I feel lile I have to do the right thing here and be responsible. So I'm ok that I'm the only one doing the work. Makes me feel good doing the work.

Sometimes I feel like telling my W how I feel. Tell her how I'm not happy with the entire way she is acting. But what good would that do? Probably only make matters worse. It upsets me when my W and I argued last week and she said how she could have taken all of the furniture and money but didn't. Ok, was I supposed to be grateful? I feel asking her why she would have done that to me anyway? What would I have done to deserve it? (she didn't do those things, she just said she could have) I keep telling myself that perhaps once the house is sold and that stress if off my W, that maybe she will come around to the idea of saving our M. IDK... Her father told me that one time, that she is so stressed about the house that I needed to sell it so my W could relax.

I have a C appt. next week with my new C. I keep wondering if I should tell my W if she wants to go that she is welcome and just leave it at that, no pressure. I don't want to push her. I've had plenty of people tell me to give her space. Should I continue with this backing off? It's been 5 months so I guess not a long time. Question for me is, if not now then when do I try with W? I know she will probably get her own apartment soon and move out of her sister's house. Part of me is afraid that once she gets an apartment, it will make it much more difficult for us to reconcile.

Feel like I'm being a better man but W doesn't seem to notice. Sandi, I could use your help again.

[mza8]

Sandi, would you look over my last few posts if you have time? I'm confused about what to do next.

Since talking to my W Friday morning, I haven't heard from her since. We talked for 2 minutes when I called her because the rest of her stuff wss gone from the house. She had the movers at the house at 7am on Friday she said so she could get it done early so she could get to work. I think she did it on Friday so she wouldn't have to bump into me at the house this weekend. It's a beautiful weekend and I'm sure she's having a wonderful time. Meanwhile I'm working on the house again this weekend. She wants to put the house for sale so badly but yet she doesn't call me or help with the house. Unbelievable. Once again, I am the one in the M taking care of everything. It wouldn't surprise me if she is moving into her apartment this weekend. Who knows?


The next time I talk to her I feel like telling her that I am upset with her lack of responsibility. I want to tell her that she is in fantasy land and needs to snap out of it. I understand that she is going through whatever it is she is going through, but she needs to wake-up and take her responsibility with the house. I want to tell her that she is burying her head in the sand again, this time with our M. That she is running from the issues again and isn't strong enough to face them. That she thinks she has it all figured out now but in reality she does not. I want to tell her that I can look in the mirror now and accept my faults and I am doing the hard work of correcting them. I want to tell her that I have a C appt. this week and if she wants to start putting in some hard work, finally, and stop running, then she is welcome to join me. She said she wants to be challenged. Well, I would tell her to start by taking this challenge of stop running and make some effort to at least go to C.

Sandi, I'm so frustrated. Should I say these things to W or just wait and be more patient? In church today the sermon talked about letting go of the hurt from the past so that we can focus on today. The sermon talked about this in regards to M. It was so on the money with my sitch. Very powerful. I wish my W would have heard it.

[Steve McQueen]

The next time I talk to her I feel like telling her that I am upset with her lack of responsibility. I want to tell her that she is in fantasy land and needs to snap out of it. I understand that she is going through whatever it is she is going through, but she needs to wake-up and take her responsibility with the house. I want to tell her that she is burying her head in the sand again, this time with our M. That she is running from the issues again and isn't strong enough to face them. That she thinks she has it all figured out now but in reality she does not. I want to tell her that I can look in the mirror now and accept my faults and I am doing the hard work of correcting them. I want to tell her that I have a C appt. this week and if she wants to start putting in some hard work, finally, and stop running, then she is welcome to join me. She said she wants to be challenged. Well, I would tell her to start by taking this challenge of stop running and make some effort to at least go to C.

I know you are asking Sandi, but I would like to just say to you that saying anything to your wife like that is like taking a step backwards away from what you are trying to accomplish, and even if she looks in the face and nods her head while you are talking when she gets in the car she will be thinking, 'what nerve.'

Your next move should be working on independence and happiness regardless of the outcome. For your wife to see you as a man that is not upset by her actions, confident that the 'new' direction in your life is better then what it was, and moving away from her will make you more interesting for her to come back too.

I want to reiterate this to you,

Do you really feel that your wife is attracted to needy, insecure, unconfident men, who would beg a woman to stay or even reconsider? How could you begin to imagine your wife could find any sexual attraction in that behavior? And if she is not sexually attracted, why would she even want to reconsider? Life is good now that she is on her own and separated.

Remember, she wants you to challenge her. Telling her she is burying her head in the sand is an insult not a challenge. She will flee. Telling her, 'she thinks she has it all figured out now but in reality she does not' sounds like you know whats best for her. What gives you the right to determine that? Have you actually figured it ALL out for yourself yet?

[mza8]

Thanks for checking in Steve. So I guess I shouldn't even mention the C in a nice way? Just don't know when to try and reach out to her? This is frustrating and I know I am getting a taste of what she must have felt for the past two years. She seems so determined not to want to try, at least right now.

I hear what you're saying about being strong and attractive. I feel like that's what I've been doing. I don't bother her, don't react negatively to her, taking care of things, continuing to keep to my new changes, working two jobs, etc. I don't know what else I can do? Maybe she just needs to see it for an extended period of time.

I certainly don't think I have ot all figured out but I feel like at least I'm trying to learn and work on things I need to improve. I just would like my W to do the same. If she was willing, then this M could be saved.

How can I challenge her? I don't want to sound demanding to her. Any suggestions?

I don't want to take any steps backwards. Thanks for setting me straight Steve. It's just difficult for her to see the new me since we are separated.

[robx]

The next time I talk to her I feel like telling her that I am upset with her lack of responsibility. I want to tell her that she is in fantasy land and needs to snap out of it. I understand that she is going through whatever it is she is going through, but she needs to wake-up and take her responsibility with the house. I want to tell her that she is burying her head in the sand again, this time with our M. That she is running from the issues again and isn't strong enough to face them. That she thinks she has it all figured out now but in reality she does not. I want to tell her that I can look in the mirror now and accept my faults and I am doing the hard work of correcting them. I want to tell her that I have a C appt. this week and if she wants to start putting in some hard work, finally, and stop running, then she is welcome to join me. She said she wants to be challenged. Well, I would tell her to start by taking this challenge of stop running and make some effort to at least go to C.

Ok, a few things:
- don't talk about your "feelings" with your WAW, they don't care, it's a waste of your breath but if you want to show her how much of a wussy man you are, go ahead and talk about your "feelings" because you've been taught by society to be a sensitive feeling man and that's what your WAW really wants.... I'm being sarcastic here, no feelings talk whatsoever, it's not masculine or attractive

- you kind of get it but you don't so here is some help. Your WAW is in fantasyland, when they are in fantasyland, they won't understand or hear your logic, it won't work, she is emotionally driven, you are logically driven. You keep applying your logic to her emotions and you can already tell she is led by her feelings. Why do you feel telling her that she has to snap out of fantasyland is going to work? It won't, you are going against her feelings and you can tell that she rejects you because you are going against her feelings.

You don't want to tell her this:
"...I want to tell her that I can look in the mirror now and accept my faults and I am doing the hard work of correcting them."

Why? This is what you're saying, I'm not good enough for you, I have to improve to reach your level, I'll work hard to show you I'm good enough and I'll change just for you, I'll correct myself just for you. When you tell someone or show someone by trying to prove you're good enough you achieve the exact opposite, you communicate the opposite, I'm not good enough for you.

Here's the deal.... YOU ARE MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH.
However you've been spending alot of time lately acting like you're not good enough for her in some form or fashion and oh how the women love it when a man shows this kind of confidence. (sarcasm obviously)

On the "challenge" issue,
Yeah I believe your wife wants to be challenged, she wants to be with a man that challenges her, wants her to rise up to his level, something that she wants to pursue and have because she doesn't have a man like that in her life, that's the challenge she wants, that's what attracts her, a guy that leads, a guy that has high standards, a guy that knows what he wants, a guy that will stand up for himself, a guy that has self respect and a healthy self-esteem and a guy that won't tolerate less than this from his wife.

Turn this situation around by looking at it differently.

[Steve McQueen]

Thanks for checking in Steve. So I guess I shouldn't even mention the C in a nice way? Just don't know when to try and reach out to her?

no. and if she is interested in you she will reach out to you. wait for her. the are better things to reach for in the time being. 100 lb dumbells.


rob said this

Here's the deal.... YOU ARE MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH.

I'll add. You are excellent. Great. the second greatest man in the world after me. HAHAHAHA

Ali to reporters after beating Sonny Liston after most reporters never gave him a chance.

"I'm the king of the world, I am the greatest, I’m Muhammad Ali. I shook up the world, I am the greatest, I'm king of the world, I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I'm a bad man, you heard me I'm a bad man. Archie Moore fell in four, Liston wanted me more, so since he's so great, I'm a make him fall in eight, I'm a bad man, I'm king of the world! I'm 22 years old and ain’t got a mark on my face, I'm pretty, I easily survived six rounds with that ugly bear, because I am the greatest."

[mza8]

Robox thanks. All very good points. I am listening to all of the advice given to me. It is very much appreciated as I try to save my M.

Couple of questions. When you say to be masculine to be attractive, I feel like I'm doing this by taking care of things with the house. Also, I feel like I am doing all of the things you say she needs to be challenged. I believe I am taking charge with the responsibilities. I haven't asked her for anything nor have I complained to her that she is doing nothing. It's confusing to me when you say that she wants to pursue. My question is how do I balance that? In other words, I don't want to appear that I am ignoring her when I don't answer her calls, yet I feel like I need to not be too available to her so she can pursue me. Is there a difference? Should I care if it upsets my W?

I continue to receive good advice here and I want to make sure I understand everything correctly.

The fact that she is going off her emotions, how do I change those emotions? I know to do what has been advised to me here but is there anything else or do I just need to wait it out? I'm worried that she will enjoy the new distance between us and then nothing I do will matter the longer we don't try to go to C. I am secure enough to admit that her and I should only talk about M with C as I am not always perfect responding to her emotions one on one right now.

[mza8]

Thanks again Steve. I love the Ali quote.

Here's another quote.

"Because I'm good enough. I'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me." Stuart Smally.

I know, you Ali quote was better.

Thanks again.