I don't disagree with a lot of the principles you discuss regarding exposure and dealing with an A at all. I do however take huge issue with your style and attitude. Coming from one person to another whose health was badly affected by a S's A I don't see the need for such an abrasive way of putting things to others.
At times in my sitch, my H had me thinking black was white and that I was going mad. He exercised mental cruelty on me and had me believing that our friends didn't like me and only saw us socially as a couple for 'his' sake as they felt sorry for him.He told me that our friends had told him they thought I was nasty and horrid - after the A he told me he had lied about that. Now what am I meant to believe? These are people we had gotten to know over the years through ME, but I was so confused by everything I believed him - friends we had known up to 20yrs. Even now- fully reconciled - I can't feel sure of myself with these people and I socialise little and under sufferance. I tried to take my own life as I said earlier. Yet I feel that the advice on here needs to be tempered a bit by you. Hurt and made ill you may have been, but you don't have to post in the manner you do. In fact I think part of your message is lost in your style as it turns some off reading your posts.
Exposure, although good at ending the A, can cause catastrophic fallout and I feel you don't give that part of it enough weight when you post advising people. You know, there has been at least one instance on here of someone following advice blindly, and then the outcome was so awful they tried to take there own life. That I believe caused one of the mass bannings on a previous occasion of some of the stronger posters. Those that were allowed to remain were asked to temper their posts and put them in a little more context and show that they were applying their own personal views etc.
Now to what exposure to all can do. Personally I have seen couples who expose the A to friends, family etc be outcast. People don't know what to say to them and they don't want to be seen to take sides. In my instance we were both upfront with our friends and said that we didn't want anyone to feel they were to take sides - they were both our friends and whatever the outcome in our M was, they would still be all our friends.
Exposure to family was another success. Both our families supported both of us. Probabaly because we both accepted that there were reasons on both sides why the A had happened. Having an A is wrong, but neither of us was without blame in causing the M to get to such a place where my H felt the need to have an A. My H now can't believe he had an A and can see that it solved nothing - in fact it made things much harder. Trust can still be an issue even now.
Do you think there is a chance you can temper your posts a bit Allen?
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And not a word to Lotus about any of her mudslinging at all... just a one-sided attack on me and not a mention of her... un-freakin-believable.
My post to you above was to you, and also about my own personal A experiences, and had nothing to do with Lotus and the exchanges you have been having with her. If you are hung up about Lotus that is your problem - own it.
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I already SAID I can temper my posts, I already OFFERED to - Lotus did not, but here we are with a one-sided post yet again.
I am not Lotus and my post to you, about you and the way you post was not one sided. I actually complemented you in saying that I didn't disagree with you on many of the principles you discuss regarding exposure, Yet you choose to disregard that and tell me I am one sided.
If you can temper your posts then I should be grateful if you would please do so when replying to me. I apologised to you for my juvenile comment. Take it on the chin eh?
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There's a front and back to each book, if all you read is the cover you learn nothing much at all.
The implication here, yet again from you, is I am ignorant - now that is mud slinging - you just appear to do it in a snide way.
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I took mudslinging from Lotus multiple times here, and you glossed over it without a mention and go after me and call me jeuvenile... and now you want me to temper my posts without so much as a mention to anything Lotus has posted? Did you bother to read how "jeuvenile" Lotus' has been on this thread at all? Did you bother to read how many times I pulled punches while she blasted away like an angry child? And yet you say nothing about this.
I don't care if you and Lotus want to get into these stupid exchanges. I was trying to say to YOU that you have value to offer but for some you need to turn it down a notch or you lose the ability to imbibe your knowledge to others as they skip your posts because of the aggressive way they are done - I am not just talking on this thread. You seem to revel in being a bit of a b*stard.
YOU got hold of the wrong end of the stick. NOTHING in my post to you was about Lotus or your exchanges with her - yet YOU chose to drag it back to that. Shame on you. You are like a dog with a bone.
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Saffie, when you post something that shows me you have read the entire exchange I will entertain the content of this post of yours above to the extent it truly deserves becuase there is some worthwhile commentary here, but sorely lacking in a fair treatment of the exchange. You can't possibly expect anyone to retain their diginity and accept this as a reasonable response. To me right now you just look biased beyond even my belief.
You protesteth too much. Go look in a mirror. I think you are projecting your own attitude.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
... You protesteth too much. Go look in a mirror. I think you are projecting your own attitude.
If you think I like having to protect myself from character attacks on this forum you are mistaken. I didn't start the mud-slinging on this forum nor did I do so elsehwere... I didn't even OPEN this thread. But I will NOT sit down and watch someone INSULT me... get it?
Your post has nothing to do with that exchange? I seriously doubt that.
Shame on ME?
Sure, you put one post up to ME, but where is the one for LOTUS giving HER some advice eh?
Who started this thread, anyway? And why? To slap those around who don't toe the Lotus Line.
Lotus is just pi$$ed that I called her on a few things.. it happens.
And ya, I haven't been gracious about catching the logic problems and I should have been, but the horrible effort in assessing last nights exchange on this thread today just makes my jaw drop.
I think I need to RE-POST some of Lotus' choice posts so people might actually catch them this time.
See, the thing is, Allen, you are a strong poster. I like that.
There are other strong posters here, oldtimers, who will feel threatened and come after you. Don't know why other opinions are not well-tolerated.
I have been called names here too and asked what I am doing here, but it mostly just amuses me to get such a strong reaction.
You are hitting a few nerves here, and that's a good thing.
Thanks K... I am a strong voice here I know, that's not my fault that I have an opinion.
I don't like hitting nerves, I am aiming for hitting flawed logic. Unfortunatley for some people here they attach the logic they post TO their nerves.
I am less perturbed with Lotus' exchanges yesterday than I am with the one-sided assessment of them this morning.. Honestly, I COULD have been easier on her, and I pulled a LOT of punches that I WANTED to throw too...
Could I have been more delicate? Of course I could have... and I did OFFER to, but that's when the attacks just got worse...
But no one here this morning seems to want to even read that.
WHen you have two people in a court-room and it gets into "he said" - "she said" it gets tossed out and both people get a stern warning...
When two siblings argue and a parent has to break it up you get that dismissed to..
But in THESE cases the dispute is uncertain, no one knows what REALLY happend...
But HERE on this THREAD the attacks are RIGHT THERE and everyone is turning a BLIND eye to them...
This is much the same behaviour peopel offer up when you plead with them to help you end a damn affair ... they just give you the "I didnt' see anything.. shame on you for gossiping and criticizing your spouse" and run off...
Well, I am sick to death of the ostrich attitude, its in the public at large re infidelity and its even on this thread...
If you are gonna post a comment then assess the full exchange and stop attacking ONE PERSON ONLY...
Serioulsy Kimmie, you CAN tell me I should have toned it down a notch, you wouldlnt' be wrong there...
Its the blatant glossing over commentary that i am seeing this morning that has me so riled up today.
Your post has nothing to do with that exchange? I seriously doubt that.
Don't care that you doubt it. It was the truth. If you care to look back you will see that when I first posted I mentioned that I had not posted much in a while , but the tone of your posts had brought me out of the woodwork. Believe what you want; I don't care. I know the truth. I know you weren't able to answer in a civil or less agressive way as I requested; although you maintain that you can. I would love to see the proof.
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O N E - S I D E D - P O S T
Stop squealing this like a stuffed pig - you seem to have a real problem with Lotus....and she with you.....but that makes you attack others and try and hammer them down with your posts. Perhaps that is why this attack is so one sided. Read the whole thread back through. You might see then why you got some of the responses you did.
You appear to try to brow beat others if they disagree with you, (I am not including the Lotus exchanges in this as that all just got so petty on both sides).
This thread could offer so much more - why not let it?
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I am a strong voice here I know, that's not my fault that I have an opinion.
I totally agree. Where you go wrong though is that you show no respect for the opinions of others if they disagree with you. You just try to belittle them.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I am a strong voice here I know, that's not my fault that I have an opinion.
I totally agree. Where you go wrong though is that you show no respect for the opinions of others if they disagree with you. You just try to belittle them.
If I get a challenge to logic I welcome it.. what i do NOT welcome and what I do go after aggressively is when someone choses to discard logic and start mud-slinging
I busted my BUTT yesterday night to step OUT of that mess, I EVEN OFFERED to tone it down and i just got an even worse assult for it...
But again I don't see you make a single post to Lotus at all.. again its an attack on ME without a word to poor poor Lotus ... I am getting sick to death of it.
