feel free to read it to get a little info on us and our relationship. monday night, i was trying to get her to send me a nude cell phone picture of herself, which she wouldn't. i said please a couple times, then she went off on me. tuesday she wouldn't talk to me and acted mad at the world anywho, we work at the same place, but her schedule is a couple hours earlier than mine. we often e-mail back and forth. this is an e-mail from tuesday night at work. i started off by sending her a link to a dress i thought she might like.
Quote:
Her: Cute, but I’m afraid that style wouldn’t be flattering on me. I tried on something similar at kohls the other day and it looked bad. Anyway, are you done being pissy?
Me: Thought it was worth a shot. I wasn’t being pissy Missy.
Her: YES you were!! You said I hate you because I refused you a stupid picture. I have a feeling you were not joking. That is being pissy, and it’s sad that over a picture, that by the way I would be COMPLETELY uncomfortable with, you got all shitty with me.
Me: And for the record, you could have just said you weren’t comfortable with it and it would have been fine. Instead you just made it sound like you just didn’t want to do it to be mean.
Her: Well, how many times have you asked me and how many times have I said no? This should indicate that I am not comfortable with it. If you need me to spell it out, fine, it’s spelled out. You aren’t getting one unless you take it with the nice cam and I don’t have to look at it. You are definitely not getting one on your phone. I got shitty because I said no like twelve times and you kept asking and acted like you were going to take things away if I didn’t do it. That’s not the way to get a good response, treating me like a child kinda like “if you don’t eat all your food, you can’t play with your toys” type of bullshit. I don’t respond well to that in any scenario. Just FYI.
Me: Sorry, I just thought it was something personal against me. I didn’t know it was such an issue. I would love to take some nice pictures with the camera at home, but you won’t let me do that either. I just happen to love your body and I love looking at it.
Her: You always think everything I do is something personal against you. Usually, if it has to do with me and my body, it’s something personal against me. I’m not one of those people that is completely comfortable with the way I look, as if I don’t say it enough for you to have figured that out by now. I will let you, we can do it this weekend if you want. Whatever, but that [censored] is getting photoshopped to hell and back if I have anything to say about it. You can’t keep any pictures I don’t like… which will probably be 75% of what is taken.
Me: Well it’s just the way it’s communicated. It seems like it’s personal towards me, not you. I would love it if you’d let me take some. I just wish you’d have a better view on your own body. There is nothing wrong with it at all, just so you know. Everyone can find something they don’t like about themselves, myself included. But I don’t beat myself up over it.
Her: Yeah, you just beat me up about it instead. You don’t love me, you don’t want me, you don’t think I’m hot, you think I’m ugly, you this and you that… because of your own insecurities.
Me: I don’t say that stuff because I think you look bad!
Her: No, you say that stuff because of how you feel about YOU… and you blame me for it.
Me: I’m just telling you how I honestly feel. It’s not because of how I feel about myself. It’s how I feel that you feel about me.
Her: Whatever you say… you will think that regardless, unless I have sex with you every day. I can’t change the way I am… if you can’t handle it then I’m sorry.
Me: I really don’t want to get into this right now.
Her: Well you are the one that brought it up. But anyway, do we need DVD’s? And, I ordered my wheels. A little more than we expected, but I got the ones I wanted.
Me: I didn’t really bring it up, but that’s a touchy issue for me and I don’t want to discuss it at work. Yes, we need DVDs. Dant wants me to burn P90X for him. I figured you ordered the wheels. How much was it?
Her: It’s touchy because you think I’m the cause of all our issues. Order them then. And, it was 910 total shipped with the lugnuts.
Me: I don’t know what the cause is and that’s one reason why it’s touchy, because I don’t know how to fix it. I guess I will order them. $910 isn’t bad at all.
Her: It’s not something you “fix”. It’s one of those things that changes over time as life gets busier and you have to deal with it and appreciate what you get. But yeah, the guy said they should be here in 3-5 business days. YAY!! Maybe they will be here by Friday and we can get em put on! I hope I could get that lucky.
Me: No, that’s just how you see it. And that’s one of the issues. That’s great that they’ll be here quickly.
Her: Yeah, I’m excited. I think they are going to look amazing!! I LOOOVEEEee that red pinstripe and glad it will go all the way around. And yes, it is one of those things. It’s not like we have as much time as we used to. “making” time as you want to is [censored] boring. How about, this day, this time, this place… it’s the same [censored] every week and it SUCKS. How many times do I have to tell you that?
Me: Well I’m glad you like the pinstripe and that they’re somewhat cheap. It’s not one of those things. I know people that are plenty busier than we are that get by just fine. I don’t schedule it, you do. I try to add some fun to it and you deny me every time. You think I like the same old thing all the time? No, but I take what I can get.
Her: I don’t like it. I loooooooovvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeee it.
And, don’t compare us to other people. We are not other people. You want to get things like cards and books… and make it complicated. Complicated=no fun. You don’t do anything at all at any point… and, I feel like if I don’t do something, you will complain. Which, you will. And then you’ll use it against me… and we’ll argue. “will baby love me?” is NOT a proper way to proposition me. It’s like saying, “if you don’t do this, I will think you hate me” which completely turns me OFF. You don’t seem to understand.
Me: Well then what the hell am I supposed to do? I’m totally lost on it because I’ve been rejected so many times, I’m not sure what works. No sense in putting a bunch of effort into something I feel is a lost cause, you know?
Her: You’re supposed to stop acting like it’s another “job” for me. Something I “have” to do to make you happy. You act like that is the only thing I can do to make you feel like I care about you and that I love you. It isn’t. You act like if I don’t, then I’m a horrible person. It doesn’t exactly turn me on to know that’s the only way you won’t complain about our relationship. That shouldn’t be the only thing that makes you happy, makes you feel like I care, or gets you to not complain. It should be something that is appreciated for what you get, not something you complain about not getting enough. It drives me MAD to think the only way you think I love you is that if we have sex. It makes it feel like work. I’m sure this is just going to piss you off, but it’s the way I feel and it makes me not want it at all.
Me: It just seems so strange that you used to love doing it and now you absolutely hate it except for when you want it. You don’t give 2 shits less about how I feel or what I want. A marriage is supposed to be about doing things for each other and making each other happy. It’s not always about pleasing yourself all the time. I just don’t know what the hell I did to make you dislike something that’s so damn enjoyable.
Her: Ever heard of getting BORED? Do something different. Same place, same time, every week. Yet AGAIN I have to say this… I don’t give two shits about what you want or how you feel? It’s because the only thing you want is sex and the only time you feel good is when you get it. I can’t help you with that.
Me: What the hell am I suppose to do. I’m all the time recommending new stuff and places, only to get turned down. I get bored too, but that doesn’t mean it’s still not enjoyable. And yes, you can help me with that. You just choose not to. I do everything in my power to try and please you in every way and it doesn’t matter when it comes to me.
Her: You are completely wrong. If I didn’t care and if I didn’t want to make you happy, you probably wouldn’t get it at all and considering how much you complain about it and how much that turns me off, you are lucky to get it at all. Seriously. You have no idea how your complaining about it turns me away. You think vocalizing makes it better well it doesn’t. I feel like you don’t at all appreciate it and that when you get it it’s just enough to stop your complaining for a little bit. Like I said, it’s like a job. And it’s not that I don’t enjoy it when we do, but in the back of my head I am always thinking “how long will this satisfy him for? 5 minutes? A day? What?”
Me: Fine, you don’t want it any more, then that’s the way it’ll be.
Her: And again you completely misinterpret what I am trying to say. Good job.
Me: Everything you just said says that you don’t want it at all and that you only do it currently to please me.
Her: Everything I said points to the fact that your complaining about how much you don’t get it makes me so angry that I can’t stand the thought of sex to shut you up. If it felt less like something I HAD to do to keep you from complaining and telling me all the time that I hate you, which isn’t true, then I’d be more inclined to want it. But fat chance of that ever happening because you’ll just take that and make it say “kayla doesn’t care about how eric feels”.
Me: What have I complained about? I haven’t said [censored] about anything except last night.
Her: You always complain about how often we have sex. When you don’t complain, the look on your face is complaining… you don’t see yourself. Aside from that there are your constant “you hate me” and “you don’t care about my feelings” and “you aren’t attracted to me” comments… it doesn’t do much for me.
Me: Ever think that I might ‘complain’ less if something changed? Either way, I told you I don’t want to talk about this right now. I don’t want to be mad tonight.
Her: I didn’t wanna be mad yesterday. I didn’t wanna wake up mad. I didn’t want to be mad all day today. But I am. If you didn’t say [censored] like that things might change. But that, again, will probably never happen. It’ll be a job, a chore, something I HAVE to do. It’s never going to be right apparently.
Me: Well we can fix that by just never doing it again. Problem solved. Once again, I’m done talking about it. It’s not important to you so quit getting worked up about it.
Her: Once again there you go stuffing words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. Things I never said or never thought suddenly become part of me. Thanks for that.
Me: Your words clearly say it, as do your actions. Anyways, when do you want to eat lunch?
Her: I don’t [censored] care. Can’t you answer that for me too? You know every thought in my head, right? You know every feeling in my heart, thought in my head, word on my tongue before it ever even comes out. Right?
Me: Well when you clearly say something. Anywho, when is lunch?
Her: But I didn’t say that you are making it up. I don’t care when lunch is, my dumbass can’t eat what I brought anyway.
Me: I know I’m not making anything up. Why can’t you eat?
sorry for the length, but i thought this would be great for someone to diagnose. pretty much every argument has this general feel to it. i'm open to any and all suggestions
Maybe one thing is a frank discussion about what she feels uncomfortable doing. Maybe if you stop asking for certain things that trigger her body insecurity issues, she will be more open to initiating more often or revisiting the topic of general frequency. Maybe she's getting secretly resentful of her body issues being triggered and there's a whole list of things she would be willing to do more often if you two stayed away from her fear of her body issues being triggered? Not sure.
Sounds like she is openly telling you how she feels and what she thinks, and you just keep ignoring it. Have you tried not worrying about the next time you will have sex for a full week? Just being nice and not asking for it. And all that stuff about how insecure you are. It turned me off big-time. Sounds like you could make a lot of changes to be the best you that you can be!
i rarely ever do anything to make her feel uncomfortable, she's just always got that attitude.
yeah, she's telling me what she thinks, and you don't see anything wrong with it? did you even bother to read the other thread? i've been spending the last 4 years 'waiting'. i'm tired of having to wait and not having my needs met. marriage is a 2 way street and ours only goes one way, down her street.
Sounds like she is openly telling you how she feels and what she thinks, and you just keep ignoring it.
[...]
Sounds like you could make a lot of changes to be the best you that you can be!
Like Lotus says, she is telling you flat out what her issues are, but you appear to be dismissing them or turning them into a personal attack on you.
Don't pass up an opportunity that so many people here have wished they could have. Really listen to what she is saying. Try to defuse the pointless back-and-forth bickering; that stuff is poison to relationships.
Here's some suggested reading:
The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley, Jr. For Men Only by Shaunti and Jeff Feldhahn
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
Is there a way to put the ball in her court and have her list the activities she is willing to engage in with some frequency and a list she is not? Then maybe you would get more frequency if you promised to make no more photography requests if she is never going to be comfortable enough with her body for that. I'm just pointing out that many women would be too uncomfortable with their bodies to regularly engage in that, but the same women might be open to other things. Just an idea. Sounds like you are in a very resentful space right now because these discussions have been going on so many years.
Sorry you have to be here but you have stumbled upon the right place and are trying to fix your M. I am new here as well. I have been working on my SSM since 10/09 and stumbled into these boards in January. I have to say there are many folks in here that can help.
You should really start working on you. Looks like you are pushing too hard on your W and getting less than nowhere. I would do as much reading here and in books to become more educated. I would reread SSM for sure. Without knowing what to do in my sitch, I decided the problem was me and went from there. Truth is it is both of you. A book that saved my life was A Passionate Marriage by Schnarch. I learned so much about me and my behavior that was contributing to some of our issues. The five love languages you should both read. You may find out that you are showing love to her in a way that she does not understand.
As to the topic of pushing too hard, try doing a 180, pushing your W for sex or pictures or wearing clothes you like is not working. You know the saying of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.....
The get a life theme is a big one too. Being too focused on your W and sitch makes it very hard to improve yourelf. You only see the problems. Go out with friends, do the hobbies you love, work out, dress better if you think that will help your self esteem.
Some people I have followed a lot of their posts are bagheera, cinco, danceQueen, delil@h, sillyOldBear and many more. Follow their threads to learn a bunch more.
Hang in there, patience is a huge factor in success as this process can be slow. Seeing a MC is a good idea if you can swing it. I am new here too but this is some of what I have learned and hope it helps you.
Assume, despite your W's protestations, that she does not find sex reliably rewarding because she doesn't reliable have real Os. She is asking for something new and different because what is going on isn't working for her. Assume that she has faked almost all the Os she's had with you. If she has been faking, it is very unlikely that she would tell you. She's already burdened enough with protecting your fragile sexual ego, which is a very tedious job in itself. So, simply assume that sex is not good for her. Change this. Invest in an eroscillator. The next time you have sex, insist that she can only tease you, not make you O. In the meantime, help her O in ONLY NEW ways several times. Create psychological sexual tension. Be confident. That will be something different.
W is telling the truth. The pouty/needy/whiny stuff is extremely sexually unattractive. Stop it immediately.
