Um, Lotus I am confused. I would not call it a success for Joie yet. I mean she is stating the OW is still in the picture. I hope it will be successful for her.
M38, H37 S3, S7 Together 15 yrs Married 8 yrs Bomb July 2008 Inhouse separation "I hate you" "We are over" (too many times to count) Reconciled Sept 2009 (still worth it)
You can not trust a cheater- that trust must totally be earned back. That is basic knowledge. I get frustrated but the gulliableness (sp?)of people not seeing the true right in front of them. Accepting a cheaters word. It's hard I know, I can only imagine. You just want so badly to believe.
My intent was not about trust in the R stage but with the mucky middle part of an ongoing affair the cheated spouses are so willing to believe that is over if the cheater states it is. Of course there is still lying going on.
I do like Cutter's comments on the 4 cornerstones.
M38, H37 S3, S7 Together 15 yrs Married 8 yrs Bomb July 2008 Inhouse separation "I hate you" "We are over" (too many times to count) Reconciled Sept 2009 (still worth it)
True scientists do not aggrandize their subject matter through the use of hyperbole. The fact that Puppy says this about Dr. Harley raises my skepticism about the reliability of information from your source:
Quote:
I think it was Steven W. Harley that, in his speeches on infidelity, compares it to gang rape, saying that it's actually WORSE. The argument he makes is that at least in the case of most rapes, the attacker is a stranger, whereas in infidelity, the person hurting you is the one who swore to LOVE you, and to forsake all others for.
This is demeaning and belittling to anyone who has been a victim of the violent crime that rape is.
Nor do they back up their statements with one anecdotal incident and consider that adequate support for bold, reaching statements:
Quote:
I believe he actually had a woman come up to him after one of his speeches, and tearfully share with him that she HAD been gang-raped, and she had also been the victim of her husband's cheating, and she agreed with him -- this was worse.
Could Harley be an internet relationship guru or pop psychologist, and not a serious researcher with tested theories?
This is demeaning and belittling to anyone who has been a victim of the violent crime that rape is.
Not to mention the fact that the majority of rapes are NOT the proverbial "stranger in a dark alley". At the risk of straying off topic, a 2005 study by the Department of Justice showed that 73% of rape victims knew their attacker.
Which brings us back to: do your own research and decide for yourself how best to handle your relationship. In my case I've read at least a dozen different books, had counseling sessions with an IC and a MC, talked to a DB coach, attended a Retrouvaille weekend and post sessions, spoke with two different ministers, and gotten advice from a dozen different friends and family members from all walks of life.
Does this mean I have the answer? The only way to find out will be if and when she fully recommits to the marriage. But I know that -- whatever does happen -- I can say that I did my best.
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
Ex: I expect that if someone is posting and is divorced or permanently separated, they will have a jaded view at times of what one should do. It is not to say that their advice is invalid, it is to say that their advice is going to be negatively-emotionally charged. I hope that makes sense.
Couldn't disagree more.
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
He is simply speaking from his vast experience in dealing with the subject matter, Lotus. Steven W. Harley, M.S. has over 14 years of counseling and coaching experience with couples and families. Steve specializes in adultery recovery having personally coached over 3,000 cases specifically helping couples survive and recover from marital infidelity. He is a member of the American Counseling Association and the International Association of Marriage and Family Counselors.
Steve Harley received his graduate degree in Applied Behavior Analysis, which gave him extensive training in successfully developing and coordinating plans for change. And since Steve is a gifted motivator and encourager, he offers a most effective opportunity for you to have a great and lasting marriage.
Steve Harley has guided couples from all 50 states in the U.S.A. and over 40 countries. He is the son of Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr. and has been trained and supervised by him in marriage counseling and marriage coaching.
Is it "aggrandizing" if he is merely sharing with his audience the pain of what his patients have reported to HIM?
Is it a brutal analogy? Yep -- absolutely. However, he is just sharing observations from his thousands of counseling sessions with those that have been affected by it.
This is demeaning and belittling to anyone who has been a victim of the violent crime that rape is.
Not to mention the fact that the majority of rapes are NOT the proverbial "stranger in a dark alley". At the risk of straying off topic, a 2005 study by the Department of Justice showed that 73% of rape victims knew their attacker.
Trent, you're missing his point. His point is, that the betrayal and the intensity of the pain and the damage is a direct result of the fact that your SPOUSE is someone who you love, trust, and who is supposed to have your best interests at heart. Surely you don't disagree that it hurts more when someone you LOVE (and who supposedly loves YOU) inflicts damage to you, rather than a stranger, acquaintance or extended family member?
I'm happy to see that he does have real credentials. I personally am turned off by his rhetoric. Infidelity is bad enough, there is no need to exaggerate for effect.
I am very impressed with the kind of research and resources Trent has brought to bear on his individual case. I agree that he is making herculean efforts to repair his marriage and he sets a great example of what a spouse can do to make his marriage better.
Lotus, Now you are just sounding bitter, IMO. Steven W. Harley has years and years of education and on the jobs experience. Was he the one that has also done lots clinical research?
Could Harley be an internet relationship guru or pop psychologist, and not a serious researcher with tested theories?
Do you not know this guy? His is one of the biggies in marriage repair, a must read, IMO.
I like Trent's comment that you get a whole bunch of advice from tons of people, read like crazy, really give it some thought and draw your own decisions. That to me seems like a solid plan. Smart.
I think a wise person will listen to all and not immediately disregard a dissenting opinion or vilify it but rather analyze it- see if there is any validity. I think the biggest mistake one can make is to quickly dismiss alternative viewpoints and get a linear view of what is right and what is wrong.
IDK, perhaps maybe the guilty crime people have committed on this board is getting over zealous. You see someone stepping on a perceived "land mine" and you want to knock them right down quick to the ground and avert the crisis. It hits them hard and they, unsuspecting are like- "WTH? What did you do that for..." You then say I had good intentions and good reasons.
I have a casual associate who is MC. Now boy, wouldn't I LOVE to ask her millions of questions. I ask a vague question or two occasionally. I asked her once "Do you see these couple where one person is just horrible and atrocious and do you tell the other person they should leave?" She stated you want but you have to let them work through it and get to that point ourselves. Insightful
I guess what I am getting to, is that you can't force a person to confront truths sometimes. They have to "walk" to the truth and realities on their own. And while you can act as a guide on the path- you can't make them walk faster. They have to stumble along and maybe sometimes fall and really get hurt along the way. And you will say- "watch off for that tree root it will trip you" and they continue and trip anyhow. We can help them back up and encourage them to keep going but we can't walk it for them or keep them from falling off the path or wandering off in the wrong direction or from standing still and not moving forward.
Any I making any sense here? Or am I just blabbering...lol
Last edited by june72; 03/18/1001:46 PM.
M38, H37 S3, S7 Together 15 yrs Married 8 yrs Bomb July 2008 Inhouse separation "I hate you" "We are over" (too many times to count) Reconciled Sept 2009 (still worth it)
I'm happy to see that he does have real credentials. I personally am turned off by his rhetoric. Infidelity is bad enough, there is no need to exaggerate for effect.
See, I don't think he's exaggerating. I think he's merely reporting on his thousands of consultations with women who've been affected by adultery. I'll take him at face value, since he's had far more experience than I've had just studying a few hundred on a message board and my own sitch, but AS for my own sitch -- and re-reading my journal recently where I recorded all of my thoughts and feelings at that time -- I don't disagree with him. I choose not to dwell on it here, as it would do no one any good, but the sheer depth and intensity of the wound is unfathomable.
I do agree with one of your main points of your original post in this thread, however. I do think we should give more weight to those giving advice who have SUCCESSFULLY dealt with infidelity, ended their spouses' affairs, and who are successfully healing their marriages.
