One interesting observation from the past 3 days. We had a pretty nice day on Saturday going to D16's game that night, getting something to eat after, and everyone seemed to enjoy each other's company. We even talked about all going to church together on Sunday.
I woke up Sunday morning. W came into the room and I told her 'good morning'. She then said "How can you act like nothing is wrong?" Then an argument/R discussion ensued. If I wasn't have asleep in my bed I would have walked out but I was lazy and just laid there while she went on her rant.
It is weird, but it almost seems like when things seem like they are OK she wants to sabotage it. God forbid that we can actually be happy and enjoy each others' company? I may be mind-reading here but it also happened the previous weekend. We had a nice day with kids on Saturday and she picked a fight on Sunday.
During yesterday's argument, she took down our two wedding pictures that are hanging in our room. She said something like "Time to take THESE down!". For whatever reason, when I got home from work today, she had put them back up.
If I didn't know better, something got stirred up in her mind, possibly a small amount of fear of loss plus the reality that divorcing and breaking up the family unit will be much harder for her to handle that she admits.
Continue acting as if life is great, and stop pursuing relationship talk with her, let her talk, as long as she isn't abusive or mean spirited, you can listen to what she has to say, you don't have to agree to anything, you can validate her feelings (although I rarely see this work effectively, something like "I know this hard for you to make this decision, I'm cool with whatever you end up doing" with a big smile on your face)
...I guess it is still at 'game point' - it seems like we walked up to the edge but there was a pull back of some sorts. It may be short lived. I actually think that it is a good idea for her to move out - I say this because what she has been doing (staying but 'separated' in our own house) hasn't been working. I don't think there is any chance she will 'wake up' unless her world radically changes, and it would be a very very slight chance in that case. I feel like I am in a better frame of mind to handle it now, however, which is good.
Have you considered dating yet?
Up to this point, it's been you losing her. You dealt with the fear of loss, you acted & reacted, tried to be a better husband, etc. She has never had to fear your loss. You can tell right now that the concept of her moving out, getting her own place, having to take care of herself, break up her family has caused her to waffle back & forth: some days she adamant about divorcing and other days she enjoys a good time with you & your family and then the next day she reacts poorly and angrily because it confuses her, how can she have a good time with you & your family when she wants to leave & divorce you? It doesn't compute in her head. She is emotionally driven, she enjoys her good feelings and emotions and it bothers her that sometimes she associates good feelings & emotions with YOU of all people. Can't you see that yet? Examples: coming into your bedroom in the morning while you're still half asleep and questioning how you can be fine with all of this (there is a clue there, always be happy around her, like this is the best thing that could be happening for you), her taking down the wedding pics and then.... putting them back up. Not logical is it? Heck if she wants to divorce you, the logical thing to do was to remove those wedding pics from where they were hanging instead of always being reminded that she's married to you but then.... she puts them back up. Interesting don't you think? It's not logical because she isn't using logic (and you can stop asking questions as to why she thinks this way and that way and it doesn't make sense), she is led by her emotions, she is led by her good feelings, like I said before, she is emotionally driven, she's a woman, she's not a man, women are much more emotional then men and their actions and decisions are usually emotionally fueled. You have this knowledge now, start using it to your advantage.
Anyways back to what I originally started with, yes, the evil idea of .... DATING!
You've noticed what a little bit of reality is doing to this situation. What would happen if she were to find out that you are moving on, no longer attached to the idea of being married to her? The idea of you losing interest in her, no longer the backup plan in her fantasy filled plan of living on fruitopia with the OM but just in case things didn't work out, I have my hubby to go back to, I have that safety net..... remove the safety net, let her feel a little of what you felt, real fear of loss, jealousy, those types of emotions make a person think and reconsider what they're doing.
I just noticed the difference in my attitude between my first post here 3+ weeks ago and now. I am much more calm/indifferent at this point.
I was ticked off about W talking to OM the day after Valentine's day which caused a bunch of stress and arguments between us over the following 2 weeks. My original post on this thread was just a few days after that all started.
Do you notice the difference in your wife's actions around you because of this change in you? You should have, seems pretty clear to me. Keep it up.
you mean if I leave and am out having sex with other men you won't D me?
I said it is a hypothetical situation (I think - she may already be doing this for all I know), and I would cross that bridge when I come to it.
My answer would have been "I'll decide when I want to divorce you until then I think I'll be having that kind of fun with other women so I can see what I'm missing out on"
Her question is a test, women test men continuously, especially in this separated situation you have going on here. Reply to her like that with a smile on your face and enjoy her reaction: you now know she's testing you and she does this constantly with her games and drama. Play it back to her, you're allowed and watch what happens, you might be pleasantly surprised at the results.
She is basically saying, "you mean I can go out and sleep with other men and you won't divorce me? This is too good to be true, sounds like a good deal to me."
Your reply would be acknowledging that maybe it's a good deal for both of you ;-)
Thanks Robx - I always enjoy reading your advice and have tried to follow a lot of it during this ordeal.
Yes I am very solid on staying in the house now. I briefly considered the alternately-moving-out scenario a few weeks back under the condition that she completely cut off contact with OM and we actually do something to work on the M and she refused, so I retreated back to "you are moving out because you don't want M, I am staying here" and she accepts that.
Her world is going to radically change - we have a 4000 SF home with a pool and lots of pets and 4 kids. She will be in a small place that the kids don't want to be at I figure and will not be able to only work 2 days a week anymore (what she has done for 20 yearS). It is amazing what they are willing to give up for OM. It seems crazy and that it would be just so easy to work on the M instead, but I digress.
The other thing that I have been unwavering on, which she hasn't questioned, is that I stay in our bed. She has been sleeping either in the kids rooms or on a couch in an extra bedroom for 9 months now after I gave her another 'cut off contact with OM or move out' ultimatum after I caught her talking to him again (but with a prepaid phone).
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
It is amazing what they are willing to give up for OM. It seems crazy and that it would be just so easy to work on the M instead, but I digress.
Remember what I said, you are using logic here, here actions are fueled by her emotional state, two different ways of looking at things and rationalizing actions. You are correct that it seems crazy to YOU but to your wife it isn't crazy because she is emotionally driven to these actions. The OM does a good job of flipping those switches, it's the science of attraction, plain & simple.
Yes I agree she was testing me with that comment. I also thought it would be interesting to watch her try other tests going forward - like try to openly admit what she is doing with OM, etc. to push my buttons. I am bracing myself for things to get wackier - she is acting pretty strange lately.
I have a feeling that once the news gets out that she moved out and all of the OM stuff is known around town I will be getting some interest from OWs. Remains to be seen what I will do about it, but some female companionship wouldn't hurt right now on multiple fronts.
She is going through an MLC everyone who is close to her agrees. She actually told D16 the other day that 'all the young guys at the gym think my abs look like a 19 year olds'. Why would a mother of 4 kids be flaunting her abs at the gym? Why would she brag about it to her teenage daughter if she was? She is nuts.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
Thanks Robx - I always enjoy reading your advice and have tried to follow a lot of it during this ordeal.
Yes I am very solid on staying in the house now. I briefly considered the alternately-moving-out scenario a few weeks back under the condition that she completely cut off contact with OM and we actually do something to work on the M and she refused, so I retreated back to "you are moving out because you don't want M, I am staying here" and she accepts that.
Her world is going to radically change - we have a 4000 SF home with a pool and lots of pets and 4 kids. She will be in a small place that the kids don't want to be at I figure and will not be able to only work 2 days a week anymore (what she has done for 20 yearS). It is amazing what they are willing to give up for OM. It seems crazy and that it would be just so easy to work on the M instead, but I digress.
The other thing that I have been unwavering on, which she hasn't questioned, is that I stay in our bed. She has been sleeping either in the kids rooms or on a couch in an extra bedroom for 9 months now after I gave her another 'cut off contact with OM or move out' ultimatum after I caught her talking to him again (but with a prepaid phone).
Ultimatums rarely work, especially when you're dealing with someone in such a volatile emotional state, what you're actually doing (when you understand the logic of her emotional state and how she rationalizes her actions) is pushing her to do this more. You are stimulating these feelings in her because you are saying she can't have what she wants. She's in love with her feelings (believe me and what I'm saying here) and you are going against those feelings so you're going against her which pushes her away even further.
Let her talk with the OM just tell her not to do it in front of you or the kids because that is disrespectful and you tell her that you won't talk with other women in front of her and the kids.
Her next response will be "other women?! what other women?" and your response will be "nothing for you to worry about, I get it, you want to be with the OM and you should be with him, I just don't want to wait around for you anymore, you should be with him and I'm moving on too."
No details, you remain mysterious, you don't tell her what other women (right now, there aren't any), you start locking your cell phone with a security PIN number and then leave your cell phone out and I guarantee she will try to unlock your phone and view your calls and text msg's.
Fear of loss is easy to generate and goes a long way to disrupting her existing emotional state and feelings for the OM.
You see in all of this... this was her decision, she's been in control throughout all of this.
When you first got together, you decided to see each other, date, eventually get engaged, get married, have children, buy a home, cars, go on vacations, etc. Those are all decisions you made together. Then one day she decides to have an affair, you didn't make that decision together, she took control of the relationship, she took the power and she's held on to it all this time, because she has something you've wanted, HER and the marriage. She knows this and it's her power. When you stop pursuing, when you stop fighting reality and her seeing the OM, when you start saying "it's ok, you should be with the OM, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, this is actually for the best, now I can find someone new too", when you stop asking her to go to counselling, when you stop telling her she can't contact the OM, etc. This will all throw her off.
Up until now this has been her decision, she held the power, this was going her way until you stop playing that game and start moving in the opposite direction. She pursues the OM, do you see that? She pursues him. She calls him, tries to contact him secretly, doesn't like it when you try to expose the affair, etc. She pursues him because that's what she wants and you are trying to take something away from her that she wants - those are her feelings (remember her actions are emotionally fueled, not logically) You are pursuing her, you want the marriage to work, you want her to go to counselling, etc. What happens when you stop pursuing relationship talk, when you stop pursuing her and the marriage, when you start detaching and saying "hey this is actually going to be alright!", when you tell her to be with the OM instead of fighting against that (and fighting against her feelings). What happens when you stop pursuing and actually move in the opposite direction? Think about it, she can't pursue you or chase you when you are chasing her? So allow her some space in this dynamic you have going on, start dating and seeing other women, I'm not telling you to hump every skirt you come into contact with but get out there and heck if you can't do this, can you put up the appearance that you're doing that, pick a night this week and when you come home tell her you're going out and get all showered up, shave, fix up the hair, put on some new duds, look fresh and go out and don't come back home til late at night. Mystery, it works.
Anyways back to what I originally started with, yes, the evil idea of .... DATING!
There are only three things that could turn this situation I figure - me dating, OM dumping W, and/or her being miserable away from home.
I won't wait around forever to see if the latter 2 happen, especially if she is happily off with OM. If things come up for me I will likely be interested, and as I said in the above post I believe that I will have opportunities. Many people know me - I am the president of a local youth sports organization with 800+ kids and just ran our opening ceremonies Saturday standing up and talking to 3000 people (lots of single moms in the crowd). That is one of the reasons I know the 'news' about her moving out and OM will spread quickly - many people in the community know who I am and it will make for some juicy gossip.
I am not sure it is the best way to attract interest, but many will at least know I am 'available' so to speak in a short amount of time.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
