Also, believe the anger is still there somewhere. Perhaps numbed out or passive aggressive, but if he feels he took care of you while you didn't take care of him or love him the right way enough or whatever enough to D over it, the resentment is still there. Attempting to heal unacknowledged resentment will be one of your challenges.
Here's another resentment possibility, and I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but it is possibly an unstated (or even unacknowledged) take from his angle. H: I know you had tough times, but what about me? You got this house, that inherited retirement, and your work $. Plus I took care of you emotionally during that time. What about me? I'm less financially successful (stable and independent and did not inherit anything), and here I am "taking care" of you. What about ME? This is why I am unhappy. This time it's going to be about ME.
I guess I'm saying don't underestimate the effect that money and career success (and perceived imbalances of) has on H's. Even ones who claim to be liberal. It's a recurring theme on this board.
OK, I officially agree with rr's interpretation of the conversation. I think she's nailed it and I suggest that you re-read her posts very carefully.
Also, you need to be careful about your "sharing your feelings" 180. He has left you so it really is all about him. If he really cared about your feelings (right now) then he would not have abandoned you. I agree that he may want to date and be feeling guilty about it (my H expressed that indirectly when we separated...he wasn't angry at me supposedly, even though he really was/is). If your H is depressed, he can't handle your feelings anyway. I really think you need to leave him out of the renovations, esp if he sees it as YOUR house. Remember he has to feel that he is losing something...you and your life together.
Please consider altering your 180 to "warm communication"...about HIM (listening/validating). A DBing coach may be able to help you with 180s. I've been advised to express warm appreciate when appropriate, build on H's communication when it comes to coparenting, etc. But DBing still means not bringing our own stuff into it IMO.
I can't remember if you've read Why Men Love Bitches? At some point during the hours of texting, I would suggest that "you'd love to continue the conversation but you have plans and have to go now". It's not going to work to put yourself in the pursuer role here...and it sounds like you're still in that role. You can be still be nice and warm, without being in the pursuer role.
I don't text and I have to admit I have a bias against electronic communication about emotional issues. Realistically it would be very easy for your H to text you whatever he thinks the "right thing to say" is, rather than his true thoughts and emotions. Don't give him opportunities to spin you stories about what's going on.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
WOW! So much good information. I'll reply to the posts separately so that I don't miss anything.
First of all, the "cotton candy" stuff is hilarious! That gave me a good laugh. It's especially funny because it's so true of the WAH. Everything is terrible, and it will never be good again in the opinion of the WAH.
I also agree with the "no responsibility, no blame" info you added. It's all so "I just want what I believe is best for you, no matter what you, W, think or want."
His hopelessness makes me feel sad, but it's sadness for him (not as much about us) that I feel. I feel sad that that's all he can see. I hate to imagine how he feels in that bottomless pit of despair. I know that I can't fix it or attempt to fix it, but it pains me that he has this hopeless outlook and feelings of sadness.
I'll follow your advice on not mentioning the betrayal and abandonment again. I am glad that I said it to him, but it won't be something I dredge up again and again. I bet it came as a surprise to him because of the scenario he has created in his head.
You're so right about his likely not wanting to hear all my feelings but asking that I share my feelings. He won't want to hear things that are painful or might evoke guilt, but he continues to want me to share and discuss my emotions and thoughts. So strange. I think it's safer for him to keep believing or telling himself that I didn't think he mattered and that I was so strong that I could easily make it with or without him.
I'll review that part of DR. And now for the next post!
I believe that the anger is still there, so I agree with you on that one. He has implied that he felt mistreated and neglected, and I'm sure his biased listeners have further encouraged this.
Passive-aggressive has already happened a few times, I believe. He's made some comments that seemed like "slaps" or backhanded remarks about how now I won't have to worry about him/I can do what I want (e.g., with possessions, with money, with my time).
Also, comments like "It took me leaving to get your attention" demonstrate his resentment. It will certainly be a challenge when we reconcile. [Positive thinking--not "if" but "when."]
What you wrote doesn't sound harsh, so no apology needed! In fact, my doctor suggested something along these lines to me (great minds think alike).
I can see why these things would cause resentment and possibly even feelings of fear in him. My income is almost triple his, but that doesn't matter to me and never has. That doesn't mean that it doesn't matter to him. It's not something I even think about or talk about to him.
Immediately after my mother's death, he asked me if I was going to leave him/divorce him. Even in my indescribable mental state, I thought this question was ridiculous and unnecessary. He asked me that same question a few more times after that. This now makes me wonder if he's been thinking/worrying about this for 4 years.
His comments from a couple nights ago about "You have this $, that $, so you'll be fine" also shed more light on his resentment and/or insecurity about this.
flowmom, I like your idea about altering my 180 to warm communication. I've said my piece to him about my negative/sad feelings, so I'll work now on doing what you suggested--listening, validating, and showing appreciation. I've considered doing the DB coaching, but it may have to wait until I recover from my renovation expenses (and take care of a few other pressing needs, like repairing or replacing my dishwasher). It would be worth it to do the coaching.
I have read Why Men Love Bitches (very funny read, by the way). Your suggestion is a good one--it would leave him wanting more and remove some of the control from him. However, I'm torn about the pursuer role in my situation. H feels like I've never pursued him, that he's been neglected, and that I wasn't bothered by the separation as it progressed. I certainly don't want to be clingy or seem desperate. Going dark was "more of the same" to him. I need to ponder this so that I can find the right balance with giving him what he wants but without crossing any lines that will push him further away.
I'm not a fan of emotional discussions via text, either, but I am of the opinion that right now I'll take any kind of communication from him. I just want to keep the lines of communication open. He's always been a big fan of texting, though, so I've been working on putting aside my feelings about it and texting with him.
Thanks for your input and advice. You've given me some ideas of things on which to work. Once again, you've inspired me!
HOW H BECAME RIGHTEOUSLY INDIGNANT ABOUT MY WORK SITUATION
Here's the background:
A couple weeks ago, at an after-work social gathering, a male co-worker chatted with me. This man is almost 20 years older than I (I'm 33), and he's married and has a college-aged daughter. He and I have worked together for several years and have had a good working relationship. We're also the crisis trainers for our entire organization (1,000+ employees). The crisis training includes teaching selected employees how to use physical restraints/control positions, so we've been in close physical proximity a number of times.
During this outing, my co-worker said he heard I was having trouble at home and that he'd heard that from another co-worker. [I later clarified this--this other co-worker had referred to my home "disasters" that required repairs, not trouble with H. That information has not made the rounds. Yet.] After idle chitchat, the male co-worker made a few comments about my physical appearance. He continued with, "You really are very pretty. And your t!ts are amazing." He then said, "It's very difficult for me to do the restraint training with you. I've pretty much already touched your entire breasts, but now I want the nipple." I was stunned, to say the least. This man reminds me of my father, but even if he didn't, it still left me speechless.
Not long after these comments, I decided to leave to go home. The co-worker said, "Where are we going? Let's go somewhere." I declined and made my exit. Imagine my surprise when this co-worker arrived at my house. I didn't think he knew where I live, but I live in a small neighborhood. My car was parked in the driveway, and he cruised the neighborhood until he saw it.
The next thing I knew, he was in my house. He made a little bit of small talk and then asked, "What do you think about me?" I answered, "Not much." Then he said, "Where's the bedroom?" I told him he wouldn't be going to my bedroom. He said, "Is it upstairs? I want to see the whole house. Show me your bedroom." I again told him that that was not an option. I discreetly texted my best friend with details and told her to get there quickly.
She arrived and helped me get the co-worker (who is also her co-worker) out of my home. It took entirely too long. When they were both gone, I called her to further explain what had happened. At the same time, the co-worker was calling my cell phone, but I didn't answer it.
Needless to say, I am uncomfortable and have an unpleasant physical and psychological reaction when I see this co-worker at our place of business. I also don't want to continue to do any crisis training with him.
I briefly told H about the co-worker's visit a few days after it happened, but he didn't know the full details. I told him that this man had been to the house and wouldn't leave without help from my friend. However, I filled in the story yesterday for him (he knew that I'd responded to a physical intervention/crisis and had taken a different male team member--male team member necessary for backup, as I'm 5'4" and a whopping 115 lbs).
Needless to say, H was enraged. Some of his comments follow:
*You should tell on him. *They shouldn't let him do things where he is touching you because it's obvious that he's getting off on it. It doesn't matter where any of this happened. You're uncomfortable. *If they make you continue to train with him, then tell them you won't do it anymore. *I'm sorry that is happening to you and that that happened. *Talk to your boss ASAP! This is hugely important. And tell him specifics!! *Please report this! This is a huge deal! *Did you tell your dad? And is this why the back doors are fixed now? *Get mad. You have the right to be hurt and mad. Make your boss listen to you and let him know how serious this is. After my conversation with the boss-- *What's the next step? What are your options? *File a formal complaint for sure, no doubt. That's what you need to do. *You are in the right here. You are within your rights to register a complaint, and if he did once he'll do it again.
It had weighed on my mind that I initially did not share the entire story with H. I didn't do anything wrong or disloyal, but it still didn't feel right that I didn't tell him all of what happened. It made me feel better to be completely honest about how this co-worker treated me. I also appreciate H's support and encouragement to stand up for myself. His concern was apparent still today because he told me that this co-worker should be told to get out of my work area when he comes to it.
Well 8, I feel outraged and I've never met you. You should be filing a complaint of sexual harassment so that this man doesn't get away with this with your or with anyone else. If a person is in your house and won't leave, you should be calling 911. This man sounds unpredictable and mentally unstable. I hope you will take whatever steps you need to to keep yourself SAFE and ensure that anything he tries to pull in the workplace is clearly seen in the context of his prior sexual harassment and stalking of you.
I hate to write it but frankly, I don't see your H's reaction as meaningful in terms of your M. I think that any normal person would react that way hearing about the violation that you were subjected to and the personal danger involved. Of course he doesn't want to worry about you being in danger.
ugh.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
