Are you getting good marital advice?

[Allen A]

Please let differing opinions continue. Obviously there is more than one way to reconcile; some may take longer than others. But to be honest, I can only count like 5 people who are giving advice that HAVE reconciled (I know others are out there but where?)! It would be helpful if people put info in their signatures.

NOT TO DISCOUNT ADVICE from those (of us) who haven't reconciled yet because we all know about hindsight.

Yes Newmama, that was a large part of my challenge to Lotus' first post... just because someone hasn't reconcilled yet does not invalidate their opinion, or make it of any lesser value.

I would in fact argue that they have MORE experience than perhaps someone who only battled an affair for a shorter time.

You will learn a LOT more about affair-busting battling a very stubborn and painful affair that lasts a year than you will battling an affair where the WS surrenders and returns inside of a weekend.

I have a lot of respect for those who battle affairs for weeks or months, it takes a LOT of GUTS to do that... I really don't care if they haven't reconciled yet, they have tested a large variety of approaches and have a lot to say about those experiences.. its great stuff.

[Allen A]

There are people that reconcile; but leave the boards after such time. Some stick around to pay forward what they have learned.

A very good point MC

[newmama]

Something else- it would be amazing if your spouses who ended the As could share their insight/reflections. FOr example, Allen, when you finally got to the point that made your wife end her A, did she tell you that you should have done it sooner? Or was it just the right timing? And others out there (don't mean to single you out!!!)

[Allen A]

My wife tried to end her affair around a half dozen times.. she was quite vulnerable and her OM was VERY manipulative... he knew exactly what to say to bring her back into the fog... and he did it...

Each time she ended her affair with OM - and it was always her ending things not him - she would tell him it never should have started.

It wasn't a matter of timing, she knew the first time she ended things during her EA with him that she had to end things... but she just didn't have the strength to do it... and her "friends" where foolishly supporting the A thinking she was "happier".

She regrets the whole mess now, she realizes how much time and stress it used up on us both and how much damage was done.

I have fully acknowledged I was far from a perfect spouse, and she has acknowledged the affair was not in any way a constructive solution... she just needed the strength to break away from him... and OM was single and his buddies endorsed his attacking my home as well...

I had next to no leverage to drive him away... Only one of my WS's friends actually spoke up against OM to him and told him OUTRIGHT to leave WS alone... but he didn't listen to her either (and they were friends at the time... not now).

[Allen A]

This was not my first experience with infidelity and not the last either. My co-worker at work in the cubicle next to me is a repeat offender.. I have already given him the lecture but he refuses to hear it.. he feels entitled. He's not originally from north america and in his culture the males are generally encouraged to cheat...

He does maintain that anyone who cheats on his sister he will beat senseless... ya I am fully aware of the hippocracy.

I have been out to lunch with him several times watching him work on a waitress or a hostess... he is VERY good and charming... I don't go to lunch with him anymore as a result.

I told him outright I don't want him doing anything in front of me and that if I saw anything I WOULD for his OWN good and for the good of his KIDS I would EXPOSE to his wife...

I told him he doesn't just have to work around his wife's back he has to work around me too... I told him I have too much respect for family to watch him trash his... I have MET his wife, I told him I will NOT lie to her passively or actively about infidelity. I have told him lying FOR him is NOT helping him...

The interesting thing is, he doesn't argue the point, and he can be very argumentative.. I honeslty think some of what I told him did sink in.. because he wouldn't challenge it.. he just walked away.

I have experience with a friend of mine who was engaged when I was only 18 - he was 20. His best friend he found out was sleeping with his fiancee for three months behind his back.

In that case his best friend sat down with him at my place in priavte and told him that not only was his engagemetn was off but that OM himself was engaged to his fiancee in secret.

They married a few months later... ALL my friends SHUT OUT the OM and HIS new WIFE... Including myself.. we all shut out the guy for hurting my friend like that.. he never left my house for three weeks.. he never left our guest room he was given teh news in for THREE DAYS.

That affair that turned into a marraige lasted less than a year.. they broke up and never spoke again after their very speedy and embarassing divorce - none of his friends went to his wedding desipte the invitations he had the nerve to send out.

That was twenty years ago...

[Allen A]

I will add about my co-worker, I do take him out to lunch on occasion still as I have to work with him. I pay for the lunches and he doesn't hit on anyone when i am there... that seems to be the unspoken compromise.. he will walk the straight line if I pay for his food lol

I can't say what he does when I am not looking...

[Dr LOve]

I know I am getting in on the tail end of this but....
Allen I can see by your posts that you have been "exposed" to allot of infidelity.
As for "authors" that have researched millions of cases and came to a conclusion. I can show you another author that also did research with millions of cases and they come to a different conclusion.
Where I used to work there would be a problem sometimes with a piece of equipment and they would call in an engineer to look at it. Sometimes it would take days for him to analyze the problem. A few times I would get tired of waiting and look at it myself and find that a piece of tape placed in the right place would fix the problem. Does this mean that I am smarter that the engineer? No it just means that he was looking at the problem and making it to complicate. You know paralysis through analysts.
Me I just looked for the obvious
I have read most of the books listed here and I take what I want and leave the rest.
When you first started posting I thought you were trying to say that I must confront my W's OM to end the affair" but then I read your post:
My wife tried to end her affair around a half dozen times... she was quite vulnerable and her OM was VERY manipulative... he knew exactly what to say to bring her back into the fog... and he did it...
“Each time she ended her affair with OM - and it was always her ending things not him - she would tell him it never should have started. It wasn't a matter of timing, she knew the first time she ended things during her EA with him that she had to end things... but she just didn't have the strength to do it... and her "friends" where foolishly supporting the A thinking she was "happier".

And yes in your sitch that was the logical thing to do was to confront the OM. BUT…..

In my sitch my W was also “lost in the fog” but in her case the OM just wanted to use her. He was an old Married BF that cheated on his wife with my Wife Before we got married.
My wife lost her job and her self esteem was really low. AND I am sure I was not the best husband either but she never said anything to me about her problems or if she did I did not “hear” her.
In my sitch I did go to Washington state (where he lives...I live in California) and I was thinking about confronting him but I didn’t. If I did it would have ended up with me in jail and that would not have done my sitch any good.
Also If I were to try to tell my W he was just using her she would not have listened.
I never “spied” on her after all he was out of state. But in the beginning I did look at the cell phone bill... after all it was in my name. I could see that she was the one pursuing him. At set times he would call from a pay phone and she would call him back. This would happen several times a day. But I think it grew old with the OM. He had no intention of leaving his wife. And I think the phone calls were starting to bug him. Anyway they became fewer and fewer and I have not checked in a long time but I am sure they have stopped.
We have not really “reconciled” yet but we are far better and closer to it that we were years ago.
So you see in my case confronting the OM and exposing him I believe would have made things worse. He could have ended up getting divorced and then had plenty of time to pursue my wife. I would have gotten divorced. My son would be living in a two house hold sitch. And allot of people would have been hurt. And anyway... I still can “expose” it anytime. And I am sure if it happened again I would. But I am a different person now. The first time when I found out I became a pathetic wounded person. She had cheated on ME and I was begging her to give me one more chance.
But I have grown. I have become my own person.
In DBing they talk about GALing and “acting as if” it is true but you can’t “Act” Galing or “Act” as if. You need to evolve. You really need to change your way of life and be “as if” and you do need to get a life.
That was my main problem in the beginning I was trying to fake it…
BTW W and I did go to Retro. It was great for me butit was too soon for my W. she was still in the fog.I think with the “new me” and the “Changed her because of the new me” if we went now it would do her allot of good.
Also I know Lotus personally. She is a good person and I have never known her to be judgmental. She is a little strong willed once in a while but sometimes I needed that. Still I don’t think she meant to offend anyone and she was just giving her opinion. I have had others here really lay into me and I listened to what I wanted and just let go of the rest.
JUST my opinion I have not written any books
Doc

Like I said every sitch is different. BTW you are a bigger man than I. I know a couple of guys that cheat on their wives and I refuse to associate with them and they know why.

Sorry for intruding I will now return to Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again

[newmama]

Allen, I thought you finally started to pack up and move out and your W saw what you were doing and ended it? Please forgive me if I misunderstood.

DrLove- interesting case where exposing the OMW could hurt your chances for R. I never had to worry about exposing to OWH because she divorced him with my WH's encouragement and then devoted all her attention to WH! Hmmm...but her exH tried telling me they were having an A and I blew it off as him being vindictive due to divorce.

[newmama]

UH you know what- I am getting off topic from the original discussion! Sorry Allen but I don't see your own thread so I ask you Qs on others- do you have one of your own?

Sorry Lotus- I think we are digressing here. Someone get back on track. I don't mean to post multiple replies either- I got the impression it's supposed to be open for lots of different people to post, right?

[Lotus]

I would like to bring this back to what I consider the simplest of truths. People do what is best for themselves. Marriage is voluntary. If a man or a woman is in a marriage where his or her needs are being met, and he or she is being treated nicely by the other person, s/he is likely to stay, and not to stray. On the other hand, if the spouse is angry and suspicious, treats the spouse coldly and never says nice things to him or her, that person will look for an out. Therefore, if you want to have a happy marriage you should be nice to your spouse. That does not conflict with any experts in the field of marriage. In fact, Harley advocates letting a wife who returns from infidelity know how much she means to you and giving her roses and candy. I will go get the exact quote as it is on another thread.