Are you getting good marital advice?

[Allen A]

Oh my where to I start. Well, first off, I won't paraphrase Lotus. I will actually quote you to make sure I get my reference correct.

There is a current on this board to use extreme measures to "affair bust" as opposed to the "divorce busting", the name of Michele Weiner Davis' book.

Yes, it is an infidelity subforum. It will have a "current" and that "current" will focus on breaking up an affair. A marriage according to Penny Tuppy and other published infidelity experts cannot be rebuilt during an affair. The affair must be addressed directly. The title of MWD's book is not the subject of this forum.

The opinions are those of the people posting.

Yes, they are. But more to the point, thse are shared opinions of published experts on infidelity. Many of the posters here have been kind enough to offer explicit references to Harley, Tuppy, Glass, Lusterman, and many more. These are not blanket opinions based on only their own experience, that would statistically speaking be only a single sample reference and of little value. We refer to those who research infidelity full time doing actual case studies. These experts deal with hundreds of infidelity cases and then document their findings and publish books on the subject. The opinions posted here are of the people posting AND of people who have dealt with hundreds of these cases as a full time job. LOTS of EXPERIENCE there to support an opinion.

Have those people successfully navigated their own marital problems? Who knows?

Now, I am going to put a bullet on this one, so I am giving you a fair warning.

First, no, not everyone on this forum has successfully fought the affair attacking their home to completion as of yet. Who Knows? The people that read their threads know because they update us regularly on their progress.

But more to the point, what you are implying here is that your experience is worth more than theirs because you have already reached reconcilliation. I have several problems with this :

a. First, its insulting. I would respectfully ask you to apologize to the members of this forum for suggesting that your experience is worth more than their educated experience and that of the authors they have read. This is just downright silly, but more to the point, its offensive.

b. The people on this forum come here often when their lives are at their worst. Instead of falling and wallowing, they do research and find the strength, courage, and commitment to their marriages to post here. The idea that you show up and insult them because you have reached reconciliation and they haven't yet is offensive. The opinions of educated posters who have yet to reconcile is at the least equal to that of yours. I have yet to read a single infidelity reference on your part from any published expert on the subject. Surely you advocate reading before you speak up as having as much value as a hollow opinion tossed out at whim yes?

c. I have yet to read a single post of yours that makes any refernce to any infidelity expert. And no, MWD is not an expert in infidelity. She has yet to publish a single text on the subject while others we reference have in some cases published more than one article or complete book on the topic.

We're not privy to that information.

Actually, if you bothered to read their posts you are privy to it, people publish their stories here regularly. But from my assessment of your posts, you don't read posts very carefully, at best you skim them and improvise a clumsy paraphrase. This act misinforms readers and insults the original posters who are now misrepresented. Cheap tactics like this belong in politics, not on a forum helping people combat infidelity.

I have been through infidelity problems in my marriage, and my H and I have successfully reconciled.

Good for you. Others arne't there yet. This does not make their educated viewpoints of any less value than yours. in fact I could argue that since they have been fighting their affairs LONGER that they have MORE experience than YOU. How long did the affair attack YOUR home Lotus? I am guessing it lasted less than a year. How many affairs have you had to fight Lotus? I am guessing it was only one, since you have only mentioned one. Some posters here have had to fight several. Their experience is considerably more involved than yours. Please offer them the dignity of respecting their opinion as at least equal to the value of your own uneducated and limited expeirence on the topic.

As a fully reconciled, happily married person, I have some advice for those coming here seeking advice while facing a severe marital crisis.

Ibid.

BEWARE of free information. It is worth what you pay for it! (And maybe not that much.)

This applies to YOUR advice then too Lotus... the information you are putting up here in this very thread is worth what we paid for it - nothing. The fact that you suggest this shows how foolish the suggestion is. It's self-contradicting. Free advice DOES have value. The suggestion that becuase it is free it has no value is ludicrous. Furthermore many professionals offer free advice and work all the time Pro-bono work is offered as both an act of conscience, and to help those who cannot AFFORD to PAY for it. The idea that someone offering advice and NOT wanting money makes their advice worthless is terribyly cynical.. And again,.. how much are you charging visitors to read YOUR posts?

But more to the point, educated experienced posters have a lot of value in their posts. They share information that they did indeed pay for when they purchased their text by Glass, Harley, Lusterman, Tuppy, etc. This information was NOT FREE.. it is just out of kindness that this information is being passed on for free. Your information is worth nothing as it isn't based on an infidelity reference, its a single sample rerernece and statistically speaking this is worthless. Your posts are hollow if they aren't backed up by significant experience on the subject.

Marriage is a voluntary relationship. People stay with their spouses because they want to.

People stay with their spouses for a variety of reasons : because they have children, becuase they fear the alternatives, becuase they feel obligated to try even when they don't want to. Do you have a degree in psychology or anything of this sort? Where are you getting this informatiion?

Just because you say she is "your wife" does not make her your property, like your car, or your dog.

No one here has suggested anyone is property, again this is insulting and I suggest you apologize. Furhtermore, dogs aren't property either, they are animals and they have rights.

I cannot believe that the advice given on this board, which is devoted to healing marriages, is to use surveillance on spouses, embarrass them publicly, and distrust everything they do and say.

The advice given on this board by veterans is taken from published experts on the subject. They have not only read a book on infidelity, they have written one.

MWD herself has even advocated using spyware on a PC to protect your marriage from addictional attack by a third party.. or did you skip the Infidelity section in the Divorce Remedy text as well? Yes, MWD has advocated installing software on a PC to protect a marriage.

Exposing an affair is a common tactic as affairs thrive in secrecy. Again if you have read anything on this subject you would find this advice is quite commmon among experts in the field.

Lastly again you don't appear to have read Divorce Remedy well either. MWD herself again advocates and reccomends to not believe anything a wayward spouse says and only half of what they do. I can quote you the page refernece if you need it. This is assuming you own the book.

Sorry Lotus, but this is just silly, it appears you are basing your challenges on absolutely nothing other than your personal preferences. Logic is the way to combat an affair, and your preferences for timidity do not fall in line with published expert advice on this subject at all. Why would you make a post advocating to dismiss professional expert advice on a topic and have others follow your preferences? THAT is free advice worth what's been paid for it.

And be sure to withhold all kind words and gestures.

Cake eating is a common result of this tactic you are advocating here Lotus. And MWD AGAIN would suggest "kind words and gestures" as pursuit which AGAIN in Divorce Remedy she recommends you AVOID. Why are you posting on MWD's forum touting her book, and dismissing her own advice on a subject you don't appear to have read up on? Again the advice you are warning people about appears more to be your own than that of the more educated posts on this forum. And yes, I consider an "educated" post to be one where there was specialized research done on the subject... a single sample case study isn't an educated opinion on its own.

The cornerstones of marriage are love, trust, commitment, and forgiveness. Without all four of those attributes, marriages fail.

The cornerstones of protecting a marriage are different.. and that is what Infidelity is threatening.. a marriage, and protecting a marriage from infidelity is the subject here, not the cornerstones of marriage.

You cannot rebuild your marriage on distrust, grudge holding, and silence.

You can't protect a marriage on love, trust, commitment, and forgiveness during an affair ether. During an affair your spouse offers you none of these, and very often does NOT want them from the abandoned spouse in return either.

Clearly other "cornerstones" are in order when infidelity is in play.

Consider carefully before taking anyone's advice.

Including your own Lotus. Yours is the most dangerous, its got no apparent research to back it up... So I am advocating yours is the one to be of the leasat use here. I am sad to say you have wasted valuable time that could have been put into helping people instead of my having to dismiss hollow challenges to educated posts from veteran forum members.

You will be the one to live with the consequences, not the anonymous poster on a bulletin board who insisted that you live your life his way!

No one is insisting anyone live life their way. Again the advice is coming from educated experts on infidelity. If anyone is insisting that a reader live life their way it would be uneducated posters such as yourself who refuse to make any reference to any experts on this subject of this forum - Infidelity.