New to this Community seeking advice

[JR09]

Spent this last week engaged in some GAL activities. I linked up with a friend who also is going through marital issues. Unlike myself, he has taken active steps to go through with his divorce after he was served with the papers by his W a few days ago.

He's tired of being in limbo. His W cheated on him numerous times while he was deployed. His W tried to reconcile but he declined. We had a long talk about our respective situations and linked up again to share a meal and watch a movie as he cared for his children for the weekend.

I witnessed for the first time how phone negotiations, child custody, and other legal divorce matters were unfolding in real life before me,as my friend was tackling each issue his own way

I told him about DB, but he said he was tired of trying. Too much hurt...I reflected on my own situation with my W and children living 900 miles away from me. My friend said he felt a big burden lifted from his shoulders because he could finally move on with his life. I have to respect that.

JR09

[JR09]

Called my W this evening. I needed to tell her that I would be leaving active duty this year. Big changes for me coming up. The transition will undoubtedly affect my W and children too. I told her that. We are all currently living off of my Army pay, so that will stop sometime between now and DEC.

My W was carefully listening throughout. I asked her what were her thoughts. She didn't say much, just that "she really couldn't do anything about it"...Her tone of voice was friendly, even at times, she sounded like she was relieved that my active duty time is coming to an end this year.

I actually wanted to ask her about our situation and see how my upcoming change in jobs will eventually affect it. But I didn't have the guts to ask her directly if she would consider a reconciliation. I thought maybe I'll let her think about my first news first: leaving active duty. She probably is thinking about it right now...

Michelle, Carlos, and all: how would you approach the issue of relationship at this point, given the fact that I'm leaving active duty and that the regular Army pay will stop sometime within the next 6-9 months? Should I tackle the issue directly with my W and just ASK her about it? Should I take it easy and let her bring up the topic? What's your take on this?

[MichelleLT]

Depends on how open she is being.

Might be worth asking what she thinks about you moving closer? Might be a way to ease into it. It will depend on what your job plans are though.

[JR09]

Michelle, Carlos, and whoever else wants to advise,

I called the boys today to keep up with my calling schedule. Had a good chat with my S12 who was sick. I then ask to speak to my W. After asking her how she was doing, here is the gist of the conversation:

Me: So,W,what are you thoughts about my moving closer to the boys after I leave active duty in the next 6 months?
W: I'd rather you stay as far away as possible.
Me: So You don't want me to move closer to the boys?
W: I'd rather not.
Me: I really would like to be close to them and see them more often. I think I haven't been too bad of a father in the past 21 months doing my best despite the 900 miles separating us. (No reply from W)
Me: Well what are your thoughts about us trying to talk things out, maybe eventually reconcile?
W: No. I don't want to. I actually would like to refile in about 2 months once I finish school and find a job.
Me: so there is no chance of discussing this?
W: No. I've never given you any sign that I wanted to reconcile.
Me: I thought I should at least ask and see if you'd at least be open to the idea...I was hoping maybe we could sit down and talk about his as adults in a civil manner. (no reply from W)

The conversation ends after I tell W that I may not be able to pay child support after I leave active duty unless I have a job. I told her I thought about starting to pay her a monthly sum equivalent to my military housing allowance (which is what I HAVE to send her at a very minimun according toregulations)

She panicked to the idea that she may not have any more full access to our joint checking account like she has for the past 16 years, as well for the past 21 months since she walked away. She said the State will come after me if I shut her from the joint account.

I said I may have to send her the minimum amount I HAVE to send because I also need to plan for my transition ( My W currently lives for the past 21 months with her parents, doesn't pay rent. I pay her cable, the car she drives, car insurance, and she has full access to the account to support our 3 Boys as well.)

Anyway, that's what was talked about this evening. Maybe it was time I became more assertive...tough love...reality check...I just fear all this will affect the boys as well. I really pray it won't too much. Any thoughts about what I did right, wrong?
I kept my cool all along, always remaining calm and composed. My W abruptly said she needed to go and hung up. It's been 21 months now. I thought I should test the waters and ask some tough questions. I am not sure how much of what my W said was venom and how much was truth. Maybe all her venom is HER truth...I don't know. Maybe it all came down to a head tonight. I needed to write about it. Thanks for reading.

JR09

[MichelleLT]

The reason Michele says in DB to ignore all of what they say and half of what they do (the WAS) is because when you ask those questions, you will almost inevitably get those answers.

Did she give any clue why she doesn't want you closer? (My guess is she's still scared that you will revert to past behaviors, but it's just a guess and I would love any further insight you have to help me try and see her perspective) You may want to reassure her that you don't intend to move next door, just close enough you could take them on the weekends, and that it will depend on what kind of jobs you find and where they are located.

Give her time to think over what was said. Give her time to think about what it would mean to the boys to have you closer (hopefully she will think good things and not that you will be a bad influence on them by reverting to the behaviors that drove her to leave). Continue the routines. Continue your 180s.

Keep in mind that she's probably very defensive about the money stuff right now. She may be saying she'll file in order to get $$$ support in writing. She may be feeling like she has to protect herself and the boys (even though we both know that's now at all what you meant by that - you are just acknowledging the reality of supporting two households when you will be between jobs).

Give her time to calm down after that convo. I'm sure it freaked her out. She probably has a lot whirling through her mind.

Good job on staying calm.

Keep calm. While there are things that were said and done that are not necessarily strictly DB, it was a convo that needed to happen because you need to let her know what is coming with you leaving active duty.

[JR09]

Michelle,

THANKS. I felt I needed to bring a new step in the old routine of not saying anything. And so I did. Testing the waters. No doubt in my mind my W is thinking a million things right now, who knows. I followed up with an email last night encouraging my W to take the risk to trust again.

I encouraged her to take the risk for herself, so she can heal. I encouraged her to take the risk for the Boys, so they can heal as well, and maybe grow up with a father by their side. I finally encouraged her to take the risk to trust the new ME. Taking that risk is a matter of pure faith. I hope she'll consider all these thoughts...

I am glad the convo took place. I take it it's still part of doing a 180, trying something new to test the waters...Who knows, maybe it will truly challenge her thoughts.

Anyway, THANKS Michelle. I needed that boost from you. I hope you also have a "Michelle" to boost you up like you do it with me. It truly is a lifesaver.

JR

[JR09]

Did she give any clue why she doesn't want you closer? (My guess is she's still scared that you will revert to past behaviors, but it's just a guess and I would love any further insight you have to help me try and see her perspective

You hit it on the nail Michelle. I think my W can't imagine that my changes are genuine. For some reason, she seems to still hold on tho what I used to be, not to what I could become. The way I see it is that my W has become what I USED TO BE with my PTSD, and I in turn healed myself. But that's the side that she doesn't want to acknowledge. And I sure can't force her to do so. Regaining trust involves for her to take that risk to be vulnerable again. But she probably hasn't reached that frame of mind yet.

JR

[MichelleLT]

The way I see it is that my W has become what I USED TO BE with my PTSD, and I in turn healed myself.

Remember in DB, or maybe it's DR (been a LONG while since I've reread them) about the teeter-totter effect? When the one spouse who has "always" been angry/sad/withdrawn changes? How it gives the other spouse the freedom to experience that emotion?

Always keep in mind a constant refrain in her head: is it real? And WTF couldn't he do this before (followed by it's too late, he waited too long)?

Pull back.

Let her think.

Show by your actions that you have changed. That you are trustworthy.

Don't push right now. She'll just pull away.

[healthydad]

JR,
I've been away from the board for a long time...and have a lot of new stuff going on...but thought I would come by today and see how you're doing...Michelle has already said a lot of what I was thinking as I read through your posts and through your summaries of the conversations you've had with your W. One thing that I think you need to remember, though, and this is the big risk one can take with DB, is that you should also believe and live as though it would be her loss to be without you. Sometimes love, despite our best efforts to temper it's impulses, just makes us seem needy and clingy - and the combination of those two things are just a death knoll for a relationship...

What also struck me while reading your posts, is that it feels like you still believe that what your wife is going through is connected directly to you - her words, though, and her fears, make it seem like there's something else going on here for her - perhaps something deeper - that only she can work out for herself. I do feel like you need to get more assertive - but not for her - or for her to see it in any way - but for you - and for you to know that you'll be okay no matter what happens. That's one of the toughest lessons I had to learn through all of this - that I had to better myself and my life - for me - not for her - and for my children (by focusing on me first, in a healthy, generous, non-self-serving way). It helps you let go in a way that may seem impossible at times - especially when you are counting each month of your separating - and those months string together like a rope that holds you fixed in place.

I think you have to start doing things for you - and in so far as you do them for you, for your children. Don't think of your W as having let her go completely, but do put your energy more into rebuilding what you have to offer. I know you've already done a ton of that work - and that you've had some very serious obstacles to work through - but I also know that you are an incredibly strong, good man - and you deserve to value yourself more than your words let on at times.

Not only do I think you should pull back - I think you should open your mind up to climbing a mountain - just for you - just to know that you've done it - even if no one else is around to see it.

Also...as Michelle mention...you don't have to believe all that she said - since the questions you asked were inevitably going to get that type of response...Words like that, words that make people self conscious - or make people think about things they're not fully in control of - tend to make people push away the person that asks those types of questions...it's fear...and fear just has a way of complicating relationships whether you're the one clinging to a hope, or hiding in the trees.

Hope that makes some sense...I got home late today...and am dealing with a ton of paperwork at the moment...my STBX has filed papers trying to seek full custody and accusing me of being a neglectful father...so that's got me busy.

-Carlos.

[JR09]

Carlos, Michelle,

Great to hear from both of you as always. I sure value the insight. I made a mistake and reacted to what my W said.
I forgot about the DB principle about "not believing a word she says and only believe half of what I see". Should have stuck to it. Well, today is another day to do better.

I'll pull back as advised. I know I fired my salvo. Now I'll wait for the next salvo to be fired from my W. Maybe that's not the best image to retain...Anyway...

Thanks to both of you. I sure am blessed to have your input when I struggle on this board.

JR