I can't think why she would confront you, unless she found evidence of you snooping at least.
I'm torn on this. Interested to see what some of the others have to say. I was turned upside down and inside out when I first discovered that my then wife, who had only ever been with me (and I with her) had pursued and bedded another man. Eric, I know EXACTLY what you're feeling inside I think, as do, I'm sure, many others on here.
I can only tell you that at this moment in time, nothing you could say would make your wife feel the slightest twinge of guilt. In her mind she has rationalized her actions many times over. In her mind she is completely justified in everything she is doing. Again I say, you CANNOT make her feel guilty, even if you wanted to.
Add to that this - you can't convince her she's done anything wrong either. In her mind you are already divorced because (and you all chime in and let me know if you've ever heard this one) in her mind, "we were divorced long ago."
Now here's where I'm afraid that I won't help you much - here's where I am hoping others will chime in.
I think she needs to leave. And I think she needs to leave soon. If you know for certain that she is sleeping with another man, and if you have pretty good reason to believe that it is active and continuing, I'm of the mind that she simply should not be in the house anymore.
It's just wrong to me. Her staying there is like making you complicit in her actions. It's like she receives further justification and permission because she still gets to stay in the house and play married.
So come on everyone. Chime in and set me straight. I freely admit that this is my weak area. I have no tolerance for someone who sleeps in my bed, eats our food, and gives their body to another person on a regular basis.
In all honesty, I would be inclined to pack her things and set them outside the front door.
Blessings and my apologies if I've only made this harder,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I knew, or heavily suspected enough. I confirmed the PA.
I expressed my displeasure...however, I MLC DBed...and didn't say anything at first. ALL relationships have to die on their own. And I saw enough examples of what confrontation did. So I kept to my changes and was supportive of all else she was doing. Which included lying to me when I was stpuid enough to ask her about it. She SAW how I could be.
I eventually confronted her...if by confront you mean kick her out and reallocate half of our money into my own savings account getting into a yelling match on the phone...
Things got better between us, and I totally bit on her lies about OM. While I DID fall for them, I still DBed and dettached and validated and yadda yadda yadda.
When however the day passed that she set down as the day he would no longer be in her life and she was still sleeping with him.
That is when I was LRT done.
months later she begged for another chance...and after a rocky year of piecing things got better. Much.
So while I support confrontation, I think the MLCer should SEE to the BENEFIT of the LBSer the good REAL changes they have made before any confrontation.
NOT blind stupid old confrontation of a jealous realationship that is stick a fork in it done.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Last night I read Brwol, Jack and several other posts to me..they really made me think about my sitch. It forced me to be very honest with MYSELF. Over the past few months I have been a hamster in a treadmill, spinning and spinning and spinning (a quote from Mach). It is time to get off the treadmill once and for ALL!
Over the past few months I have continue to snoop and search for answers as to how I can fix my M. The true reality is that my M is OVER. DONE, Kaputz! Dead! This is a reality that I have refused to accept. I know..I know…It takes time. Well I have to accept it. I really do. I should not have snooped. What good came out of it? Well I could say none but that is not the case. Yes, I hurt myself a little more, which was not good but I also showed myself that I still have a ways to go in terms of the changes that I want to make for ME.
Everyone and I mean everyone has given me great advice, which quite frankly I take for a day or two but revert back to the old me. To change one self takes TIME. I know now this and must embrace it. I must be gentle and patient with myself. I have a lot on my plate – a lot.
The fact that I am still snooping is an indicator that I have not detached completely and still have not dealt with my control and trust issues. Although I have made strides in areas like….loving unconditionally, becoming the best dad that I can be, controlling my emotions, listening, validating, and spiritually. I have not done as well in several of the areas that were issues in my M. I can honestly say that! I could sit here and justify my actions based on my circumstances, upbringing, social status, ethnic background, etc. but this is an excuse. You see I must CHOOSE to no longer use these excuses and focus on the area of improvement that are very, very clear now.
I must continue to peel myself open…kill the issues….accept the death of my M. As I move forward the new me will emerge – stronger, better, with a sense of peace and hope. Character, strength and honor will become the backbone of who I am. Fear, panic, hopelessness, controlling, jealousy and insecurity will no longer be a part of who I am. Today I stand for ME. Not for my W – for ME and my kids! Whoever does not like the new me well….F U!
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I can't think why she would confront you, unless she found evidence of you snooping at least.
I suspect that she knows that I found the phone. As I was looking at the texts I inadvertently dialed OM number so it went thru he would have seen a missed call and may have said something to her. Based on her demeanor today I do not believe she will confront – she does not give a shite so why bother to confront.
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Eric, I know EXACTLY what you're feeling inside I think, as do, I'm sure, many others on here.
Thank you – The pain I feel is immense…but I will pull thru…I will… It is more like a death.
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I can only tell you that at this moment in time, nothing you could say would make your wife feel the slightest twinge of guilt. In her mind she has rationalized her actions many times over. In her mind she is completely justified in everything she is doing. Again I say, you CANNOT make her feel guilty, even if you wanted to.
Funny….my IC said that W is feeling a fair amount of guilt, which is why she is hiding the A. I actually do not know…Personally, knowing my W I suspect that she does feel some remorse and maybe some guilt but I am pretty sure she has justified this in her mind. As I recall she did tell me that “it was over” back in October, then in November, then again in February. In her mind it is over. We’ll…it now over in my mind. I would not even try and explain how disrespectful it is to run into the arms of someone else a few weeks after the bomb only to then run into the arms of someone else 2 months later. Look – we both screwed this M up – her and I can debate who, what, why, etc. Simple fact – it is over. So you are correct Bill – I cannot make her feel guilty. Just as I have a cross to bear with the issues that I brought the M – at some point in her life she will need to look at her actions. This is in God time not mine though..not mine.
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I think she needs to leave. And I think she needs to leave soon. If you know for certain that she is sleeping with another man, and if you have pretty good reason to believe that it is active and continuing, I'm of the mind that she simply should not be in the house anymore.
It's just wrong to me. Her staying there is like making you complicit in her actions. It's like she receives further justification and permission because she still gets to stay in the house and play married.
Bill – I agree with you. Unfortunately, based on our circumstances this would create a mess and would have a major impact on my kids. They come first. Not me and not her – they do. As much as I would love to pack up her stuff and throw it out on the front lawn – this is not who I am. I will never be this way. I do not want to be this way (although I would get some immediate satisfaction – this though just feeds my ego). For reasons that only she can explain…she did not throw me out when I made my mistakes and so as a man of honor and character I will not do the same to her. As a man that loves unconditionally I will respect her and treat her as I would like to be treated. I cannot control her but I can control me. Will she see it – who knows…I have zero expectations. Now this is not to say that something should not be done. Right now I do not know what I will do. The old Eric would have reacted based on pure emotions – the new one gives thoughts to his actions and how they may impact others, specifically my kids. Part of me would like to be open and honest about the OM but right NOW this would accomplish nothing. It would speed up a process. It would be a control tactic – that is all. I will confront when I am sure that I’m done and have done all that I can do. I cannot pull her out of her MLC – I actually feel sorry for her in some ways. She has run into the arms of another as a means to “cover up her issues”. This is her cross to bear not mine. Her and I could debate that we have grown apart, married young, etc. I know that I did not work hard at my M. If she believes that she did, well then who am I to disagree. So know I must sit here and ponder what I will do. This will take time.
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I knew, or heavily suspected enough. I confirmed the PA.
I do not know if it is a PA – based on the text messages it appears sexual but I do not know if it is physical. Guess what – I really don’t care anymore. It does not matter. She has already caused me enough pain to last a lifetime and I have caused her great pain. Getting to the point that this M could be repaired will take a very long time. We both need to heal. Trust is gone. Attraction is gone. We are very different people right now. Could a new M be formed yes – but that take two people not one.
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ALL relationships have to die on their own.
This M is dead. Over. Done.
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So I kept to my changes and was supportive of all else she was doing.
That is my plan – really work on me and nothing else. In terms of supportive – well I guess I am doing this by virtue of being a single parent right now. I am also supporting her need to “find herself” – once again will she ever realize that – who knows. In her mind I am sure that she is helping me. Nothing I can do about how she feels. I can only control myself.
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When however the day passed that she set down as the day he would no longer be in her life and she was still sleeping with him.
That is when I was LRT done.
months later she begged for another chance...and after a rocky year of piecing things got better. Much.
I suspect that for me – the LRT will be done soon. I am not sure how long I can live this way but I do not want to put any timeline or limit on myself. Personally, I am starting to believe that we need to separate for a period of time.
My hope would be “months later” she would want to come back but quite honestly I do not think she will. In her defense…she was a daughter, wife and mother her entire life. She really does need this time to see what is out there. Since she has not addressed her dependency issues she will more than likely go from one to another for a period of time. Her pride may be the thing that stops her from trying to come back.
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So while I support confrontation, I think the MLCer should SEE to the BENEFIT of the LBSer the good REAL changes they have made before any confrontation.
NOT blind stupid old confrontation of a jealous relationship that is stick a fork in it done.
Jack – I agree that confrontation is required (as Bwrol mentions) but like your approach a bit more. Right now if I confront I am confronting for a position of pain and jealousy – I need to reach the point where I am done.
In closing, I have a lot of work and things to sort out. Whatever actions I take will be taken with love, honor and peace. I will start a new post soon.
God bless everyone.
Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
This is where the rubber meets the road. The man you have been versus the man you are becoming.
Sometimes we need to hear someone else say the things that we are thinking inside just to realize that it is NOT our path after all.
The consistency that you have lacked so far comes from severing the connection between your image of yourself and your wife's actions/words/behaviors. I suspect that the vascillation you've been living probably mirrors your wife's interactions with you fairly closely. When she's nice and close to normal, you find yourself able to cope and continue on. When she is dismissive or you make a discovery, you are ready to end things.
Emotionally getting to the place where you see yourself honestly as you are, without making that judgement based on your wife and how she is behaving towards you....well, that's the place to be.
You're beginning, I think, to understand some of the things we've been telling you.
Press on.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I wanted to respond to your questions that you had posted on another poster's thread here for you.
"Snodderly - In my sitch I do not see any excessive spending. I do see secrecy - is the lack of spending and indication that she may not be in full replay mode yet? I suspect that she is based on her actions (It's all about me, A, etc.). Also, do you have any insight into how the MLCer deals with children. In my case she was and still in (in some cases) a good mom. Should I expect to see any changes in regards to the iteraction with the kids. The one thing that I have noticed is that she appears to be "moulding" my oldest, who is 16 to take over the role of man of the house. Is this normal?"
My responses are this: each and every mlcer will behave differently throughout the crisis. Some have very similiar traits and others will be totally different. If one squanders all of his/her money, another one may not. It all depends upon the mlcer, childhood issues and personalities....we cannot put them all into one basket for they are all different, i.e., one size does not fit all.
As for children, they generaly single one child out and treat that child either as a pal or someone special. I think the reason for this is because they can relate more closely to that child and the child does not pose a threat to them. For example, your 16 yr old appears to be her special child right now. The other children will not get as much attention, if any, from the mlcer when the special attention is being addressed to that one child. This will continue for quite some time and may not disappear until the crisis is over. Again, it all depends upon the mlcer.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
My wife has singled out my D to be her special one, son is left alone and D being 14 well in a lot of ways can handle things, she's like me.
Anyway she and wife always had friend relationship, but my wife has really gone out of her way to involve D in this and has left son out, only reason she gave son for this divorce is she didn't like that I had more to do with her than with him.
With D though she said among other things, half the reason divorcing dad is you two's relationship. Because see I used to be the parent.
But My MLC'er has talked past sexual history of her and I and everything else with my D.
You are doing well and I do agree with Bill, I think you are really finally beginning to understand.
I am glad that you are getting a second legal opinion.
I am sorry that you found info on the PA. I am sure you know that I don’t advocate snooping at all. But it is something we all do at some point. It is also something we must all stop at some point.
Having a live in, I hate to say this, but I think Bill is right that maybe it is time for her to move out. It is very difficult to maintain your dignity and continue your growth with a MLCer living in your house and bed. Very difficult. My circumstances are very unique because of our schedules, but if either of us were to be home more, I would NOT be able to live this way.
You will have to ask yourself what your reasons are for remaining in the same house. If it is simply fear of the unknown or of this not working out positively, then that fear needs to be squashed because the MLCer is going to do what they will, regardless of where they live.
If it is to maintain some sense of control…well you know what the answer to that is…
If it is for some other reason, or because you honestly and truly can handle it, then you have to learn HOW to make it as easy as possible for you…
Only you have those answers, the rest of us, only have opinions and what works/worked for us…
Personally, I think that it slows everything down in many ways…I don’t know if I think that is a bad or a good thing, probably somewhere more in the middle….
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
The main reason that she is in the house still are my kids. I live for them and this would destroy the boys. I do not want to get into why Daddy has asked Mommy to leave with them. I also so enjoy the time with my D that I am not ready to give it up.
Once I have a little more info about the legality of this I may make a move. Right now I am focused on healing and being the best parent that I can be. I also know that I am not at a point yet where I need to be. It is coming...and coming soon.
Just to fill everyone in on the bonus...I used it to pay down debt. This was the right thing to do and for me is another step of being the man that I want to be. A man of honor & strength.
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I am sorry that you found info on the PA. I am sure you know that I don’t advocate snooping at all. But it is something we all do at some point. It is also something we must all stop at some point.
No more snooping for me. I'm done - done. At this point the M is totally dead.
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It is very difficult to maintain your dignity and continue your growth with a MLCer living in your house and bed. Very difficult.
Funny I thought about this a lot yesterday. Personally she does not define my diginty! I do. She will ultimately answer for her actions - that time will come in God's time. I do not know for sure yet if it is a PA - seems that way but I cannot say with 100% certainty. When I confront I suspect that she will deny. For the record, I am really need some advice on how to confront. What to say, etc. Once again, I am not ready to confront yet but want to begin to prepare myself.
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If it is to maintain some sense of control…well you know what the answer to that is…
I only have control of myself - so no I have thrown her out thinking that I can control her. I am simply being the man that I want to be which is kind, loving and understanding. Actually - I think I'm falling in love with myself
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Personally, I think that it slows everything down in many ways…I don’t know if I think that is a bad or a good thing, probably somewhere more in the middle….
So her staying is slowing things down?
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
