Help doing what is best for The Children

[January girl]

I am going dancing after that sporting my new hair cut...

Good for you, I hope you had a blast.

You are being a great dad to your kids-don't forget that.

JG

[Onthemountaintop]

Are things working out R2C?

[Ready2Change]

Response from MsR2C:

S9 and S10 were in playing then S10 accidentally hit S9 with a metal toy he was swinging and S9 flipped. I removed S9 from the room and tried to talk to him - he thought he was entitled to one of S10's toys for what happened and I told him was wasn't. He also wanted to hurt S10 so I stood between the rooms to protect S10. S9 thought this was wrong and then decided that I was the bad person. He continued to scream, swear and yell. Then he decided that he was going to "kill himself" and started searching for his pocket knife. When he was unable to find the knife he took his cell phone and started calling you - though he knew you wouldn't answer as you never do. I attribute the violence and swearing to your house - he swears quite often and they tell me that he gets away with it at your house. Also, S10 thanked me for protecting his as at your house he's forced to "defend himself" and they're oftenr sent outdoors to fight it out!! You just promote violence and that is not what S9 needs - step up and be a parent!!

My Response (Keep in mind S9 Said "mom was hitting and sitting on me"):

MsR2C,

I am sorry that you feel the need to blame me for things the kids do during your parenting time. I just want the facts. When you deliberately leave out the fact that you physically took your anger out on S9 by hitting and sitting on him, I wounder who is promoting violence. There are many other options to help the kids deal with their issues.

I have been following the kids therapists recommendation to let the kids fight as long as there is no blood or broken bones. His advise falls in line with many other experts opinions. I don't like it when they fight, but I don't like it when S10 does not stand up for himself. I frequently suggest to S9 not to hit anyone. I also explain to S10 that he has the right to defend himself. S10 is bigger and stronger than S9 and is fully capable of protecting himself when the need arises. It is important that he does this.

I can understand S9's need to express his anger with you. He needs our guidance in doing this in a productive manor. Has your IC given you any wise words you could share with him? When he uses inappropriate language at my house, I tell him I don't like it and then explain why it is inappropriate. I suggest you do the same. It might also be a good idea to stop using inappropriate language in front of him. I know for certain that he picks up words you frequently use.

I have been patiently waiting for you to do what is best for our kids and start co-parenting. Co-parenting includes discussions concerning the children. I have grown weary of your continued anger, unhappiness and disrespectful behavior. I know with absolute certainty that this is not healthy for our children.

You have two choices, you can keep blaming me for things that are not my fault, or you can do what is best for our kids and start co-parenting. Our kids have real issues and it is our responsibility as parents to work together to address them.

Her response:

The only response I have to this is that I would never use "God damn" - hearing this is when I spanked him and "bitch" he didn't get from me.

S10 does not like violence and I don't think he should be encouraged to fight when he'd rather not, if you really knew him you'd know that it isn't his nature.

My response:

Our children will learn many inappropriate words from others. The way we respond is very important. I do not respond in anger, but rather choose to understand the root of the problem and offer more appropriate choices. This has been working well for me.

I completely understand S10 and his dislike of violence. I encourage him to stand up for himself when other people cross his boundaries. This helps builds his self esteem. No one needs to put up with a bully who tries to control them.

If we model anger resolution to our children by accessing our core values to recognize their core hurt, and then acknowledging we understand their hurt, we should be able to solve the problems in everyones best interest.

My kids are back in therapy.

[Ready2Change]

Are things working out R2C?

It all depends on what "working out" means.

MsR2C and I had some dialog, which is good. I am not sure if my intentional "Blame" back was good or not, but that is a 180.

I believe S9 needs help with the "I am going to kill myself and others" thought process. Hopefully the T will help.

I need to have talk with T. We were both angry with each other. I don't feel he listens to me and believes MsR2C's bad mouthing....Frustrating.

[sgctxok]

Hi R2C,

I have been divorced since 94 (came to the board a couple of relationships later). Coparenting is so hard. And kids do exaggerate and use their knowledge of the stresses between you and your ex. As much as possible, it's best to present a united front with your children and nurture their relationships with all of their family members....which you seem to be doing, and I commend you because that is so terrifically hard, especially when you have fundamental problems with the way they behave and their influence on your children.

Therapists just have way too much power. Taling to him is a good idea.

I love your quote in your signature, and I love that you encourage and model that on the board.

[Onthemountaintop]

Just a thought on the kids' sitch:

- Accept that if you swore around your kids, you broke a wall through which your kids will experiment with. Behind that wall are all the nasties that others have been saying around them, incl on movies. But, your (and her) using a swear is what validated their use. I'VE DONE those mean insults/swears, too and I'm still paying the price. Whenever my W says that I swore - she's right. I was wrong. I try very hard to make sure what little swear/insults they heard, if they say it, I remind them I was wrong in doing it and point out how it makes their sitch worse.

-"fight it out" isn't ignoring, or helping to problem solve. It is letting them practise trying to solve their problem independent of adults. When our (5) kids fight, my wife always intervenes which makes it worse. I don't. This also makes it worse because we are giving two different messages. Can there be a middle ground? I usually point out all of the consequences of the fight. I also decided to intervene more, but only after I know the 'victim' has told the other person that they are hurt/or whatever. This has been helping. So I guess I'm saying if she and you are on opposite sites, pointing out what I feel are her faults in parenting probably won't help the kids solve much.

Would you want your parents around watching you and your (oops-EX)wife fight, hit each other, threaten suicide, and then say nothing?

[flowmom]

R2C, I urge you to buy 2 copies of Siblings Without Rivalry: How to Help Your Children Live Together So You Can Live Too. Read it and give the other one to your X without commentary. It's short and easy-to-read even when one is stressed out and not in the mood to read parenting theory. The authors do a much better job than I do explaining why allowing children to physically fight it out, or using corporal punishment to manage these situations is counterproductive. They also have another great book. Even in your situation, I believe there are some strategies that you and your X could agree on, especially if there is a reference for both of you.

I applaud you for attempting to communicate about this with your X. It looks like it will take some effort on both of your parts to overcome blaming and defensiveness when talking about parenting. I hope that this is something that you can work on individually and together.

I'm glad that you're getting help for your children. Part of being a great parent is bringing in support when one's children's need exceed one's resources or capabilities. And you are a great parent

Take care...

[Ready2Change]

Thanks friends for the wise words.

I have decided to meet with the kids therapist independent of the kids. I have an appointment this Thursday.

[Ready2Change]

I did a 180 and "Act as if" MsR2C and I are co-parenting.

I made a Dr appointment for D7 and get this
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Invited MsR2C to join us. She accepted. Spend about 1 hour together with D7. No dialog, but.......

[flowmom]

I'm so glad R2C . I don't think you'll find peace until you and MsR2C can co-parent, though I readily admit that I am probably projecting here!