mb, isn't getting your friends to argue against D major pursuing?
Only if MB's husband perceives it as a trick to get him back, rather than a genuine concern for his, and the marriage's, and the family's well-being.
It does contain some risk, but I'd personally rather err on fighting the affair with everything I have in my arsenal, than on hoping that the "Little Bo-Peep" approach will work.
So yes, I do see it as somewhat controversial, but I don't really think it qualifies as "pursuing" in MWD's sense of the word, Flow. MWD talks about pursuing as ILYs, sending flowers, setting up dates, etc.
I tend to agree with puppy. And my H is good friends with them too, and they are the type that has always spoken their mind. Plus he was visiting with them for about 3-4 hours and only about 30 min of it was spent talking about us.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
I seen my employee counsler today. She is really good, and gave me some names of some good family therapists. One's that specialize in couples. She recommended a book "Keeping the love you find" by Herville Hendrix. Has anyone read this?
Really having a hard time today. One minute I want to call a lawyer, file, and move out of my house. Just start all over. The next I want to call the OW and give her a piece of my mind. The next I want to call H and yell and scream. I have not done any of these, and I will not be doing any of them. But man I want too.
I'm going to visit my SIL & BIL tonight. They are ones that I haven't really talked to much, but are very supportive of me, and I plan on telling them everything about my sitch. This is my H's oldest sister (I know he has a lot of sisters, 4 to be exact). I've heard through others that she is very upset about her brother not working on the M. So I figured she could be of some help.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
1. mb28 is suffering 2. Children are suffering 3. Even mb28's husband is suffering
And yes, it is pursuing but not by mb28, so its positive pressure... during an affair a WS needs to hear a voice of REASON to offset the TEMPTATIONS of the affair.
Basically the WS becomes a rubber band full of tension...
If there is NO PULL on the marriage side by supportive friends, there is little pressure in that direction.
There is SOME from the protection phase and not hearing your wife's voice, or seeing your children every day, not to mention living the shame of an exposed affair in your home, at work, with your friends... hearing everyone whisper your name as you walk by ... "He's cheating on his wife..." etc
All of that is pressure, but to have good friends sit you down while you are a huge mess and have them say
"Stop hurting people and end your affair, you are making your wife ILL you creep"
That kind of stuff REALLY HITS HARD
But, at the same time, there's no anger generated twoards the spouse becuase the source of the pressure istn' coming from there
all of this is great stuff when its done well
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MB28 I think your friends are doing a wonderful job, it takes a LOT OF GUTS to stand up and advocate marriage like that, and to denounce an affair in public...
I WOULD ask them NOT to tell him "if you are gonna divorce then do it"... THAT is not likley a good idea
They should be pressing him to EXPLORE the possibility of reconcilliation through a FT you two both see together (separate sessions).
I always press this point, but its worth repeating
a. He wants to know if his affair has a future - doesn't know b. He wants to know if his marriage can be saved - doesn't know
The way to find OUT a, is to divorce and remarry
The way to find out b, is to attend a FT and reconcile. Choosing b is a LOT less work and a LOT less destructive. Furthermore, if his OW is SOOOOOOOOOOO in LOOOOOOOOOVE with him, she will WAIT in silence until he sorts out b for certain.
I always say this, you will NEVER know if the affair will turn out well for SURE unless you divorce, but you CAN know if the marriage can be saved wtihout divorcing... so, explore the marriage, as the easier question to answer first, if you explore that and you find out it can't be... then you can divorce knowing you turned over every stone.
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My concern with telling him "if you are gonna divorce then do it" might not help you over much.
He is claiming that he is going to hurt someone either way, well, sure, so lets hurt a grown woman and send her back home to HER marriage rather than hurting an entire family... THAT would be a good counter argument to his "Someone gets hurt either way"
The answer should be made OBVIOUS to him... he is making a HUGE DRAMA like this is a DIFFICULT decision to make ... its NOT hard..
THe THINKS the decision is hard, the DECISION isn't hard, he's just ADDICTED
It's EASY for us to see that giving up alcohol helps out someone with a substance abuse problem, but to the ADDICT, its a HUGE DILEMNA
Someone needs to just tell him
Look, you have a family, you have a responsability, this is NOT about YOU.. its about your WIFE and children you made a COMMITMENT TO. You have an obligation to EXPLORE that with a family therapist before abandoning your family. Families do NOT fully recover from that kind of damage, so if you are gonna do it, you OWE THEM an HONEST EFFORT before you FORCE them to accept YOUR CHOICE. Right now you need to stop waving a gun in their face by threatening divorce, its SELFISH, ignorant, and PERVERSE.. you may as well be threatening to kill them all.
Note, I never even brought UP the affair here, it wasn't necessary.
And ya, pup, I agree, its a bit of a debatable point, but to my mind, as long as the pressure comes from OUTSIDE the direct family (not wife or kids) then its not going to drive him further away from his wife... if anything it will invoke some sympathy to have someone SAY what she FEELS... SHE isnt' talking to him so he needs to HEAR that from someone..
That is why I advocate the exposure. it allows OTHERS to speak on behalf of the protected abandoned spouse while they are safe and not exposed to the drama.
And lastly mb28, the fact that your H is suggesting that someone gets hurt if he reconciles, pretty much is an admission of an affair... he doesn't realize it, but he's pretty much admitted he's involved with another woman...
There's no point in pressing that, he's clearly not going to admit this in public. He WILL HAVE TO admit this to the FT in private. The FT will have to walk him down the path of owning up to it to you mb28, but don't expect him to do that for a while.. he's clearly experiencing a LOT of shame over it.
The sad thing is, even if he wasn't, what he's donig NOW is pretty shameful and he's so focussed on NOT being condemmed as a CHEAT, he's IGNORING the fact that he's a RUNOUT HUSBAND.
What he's doing now publically, affair aside, isn't at all respectable.. but for some reason he's just worried about people believing he's NOT CHEATING ...
That is exactly how I think he feels. He's so worried about everyone thinking he's a cheater. And instead tells everyone that he can't go back to me, he couldn't handle being hurt again, and I made him feel so unloved for 4 years. That is what he is crying to everyone else.
Well after 4 months of this, everyone is coming to their own conclusions of why he won't come back. And guess what, they are all leaning towards another women.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
The more he resists adulthood, the more childish he looks, and yes, with you exposing and showing everyone those phone records, and him admitting he's got a close female friend he talks to that he wont STOP talking to... I think a second grader can do that math...
This is why protection phase is so powerful.
You aren't whining at him like a nag You are sitting back looking like a perfect adult You tell everyone you want to save your marriage You care for the kids You are seeing a family therapist You are talking to HIS family still
The more maturity, growth, humaness, and plain simple maturity you show here while he is
Whining Moaning Moaping Lying Hiding Avoiding
The more obvious things look to everyone...
So you keep up that protection phase... when you start chasing him, it just makes HIM look better... everyone things
"Ah, she's THAT kind of wife, I see..."
But when you keep your composure and HE mopes about like a two year old, YOU look in the right and YOU get more support
They WILL realize he's cheating, he's making it more obvious every day that HE does what he's doing and YOU do what YOU are diong... just AVOID him... you know what happens when you contact him
He pulls YOU down to HIS LEVEL and then YOU look as BAD as HE DOES right now... seriously
You keep your composure, he gets pressure from outside you and your kids, its all good.
Hang in there... be sure to keep prepping your friends what your boundaries are so they keep pressing that message at him
The more CONSISTENT the message, the more pressure he gets
Allen, I do not know what business you are in but I think you could have a lucrative sideline as an anonymous cheating Husband caller. I know no one who could deliver the above speech as well as you write it. Wow! I am printing that out and carrying it with me so that the next time someone asks me what they can do to help, I will hand it over and say "Say this to WH."
I think he would need to hear it a few times, from different people, to get past all the romantic crap he is fed.
"He's so worried about everyone thinking he's a cheater. And instead tells everyone that he can't go back to me, he couldn't handle being hurt again, and I made him feel so unloved for 4 years. That is what he is crying to everyone else."
mb, tell people he is cooking this up, focusing on the negative to justify his A. He was ok until he started cheating. I am so tired of people's reaction to an A is: What was wrong with the spouse? Well I'll save that rant for my thread! Hang on, the ups and downs will get farther apart as the coaster slows down.
"If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!" 1st thread
I got a lot of that from Phil McGraw, he goes right for the throat :
Want to know if something is cheating? If you wouldn't do it with your spouse standing there, it's cheating.
If you want to have a good partner, be a good partner. Put 100 percent into your marriage.
It is unfair to compare a new, exciting, taboo fantasy relationship to one you've been in for years where there are kids, bills to pay, a house to run and noses to wipe. That is a ridiculous comparison.
In order to resolve your relationship, contact with "the other person" must be cut off 100 percent. You can't work on dealing with the consequences of the affair while you're still having it.
Don't rely on your heart to tell you what to do; rely on your intellect. Do what logic tells you is the right thing to do.
And this one's my favourite :
Be mature enough to recognize that life is not always all about you and what feels good for you in the moment. If you are married and have children, you have an obligation and a commitment that far transcends what feels good.
