Quote: Now, suggestion as to his friends...try to practice some acceptance. He is in school. It is coed. He has friends of both sexes....accept that. Don't overlook danger signs, but don't read too much into things either. He may be mentioning ff a lot thinking if he is talking about her you won't be suspicious or inclined to believe there is an A going on with her. He may be trying in his own way to calm your fears..not create more. Would he really be talking about her if there was an A going on, after all you have been through?
Hey Ag,
Thanks for the great post
I did want to clarify something...my anxiety right now isn't that I think h is up to something ... it's that this single pointed friendship is raising a lot of the fears and anxiety and sadnesses of before.
I'm not sure I'm being clear. Maybe my next post will help.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
SOOOOOOOOOOO....an R talk last night (brief)....had lots and lots of positives, too.
I picked h up from the train. He was at his study group at school. Within a minute of being in the car he mentioned that 1 of the people didn't show up so it was just him and FF (positive -- h tells me this) and that this is the second time it has happened.
I do ok externally but internally I feel my heart constrict. Not good...but I sit with it.
We get home and I use my idea of earlier (formulated with LL's help) and decide to use mention of FF as a sign that I need to speak h's LL...I mention to him a coupon in the paper for a BBQ place and suggest that we go sometime soon (QT).
H is super responsive and positive to me...he asks about tonight -- will I meet him at school? We talk a bit about the weekend...he asks me a bunch about work and school. Positives, positives, positives.
I thank him for listening to my ranting about work this week. He says he is always happy to listen. BIG POSITIVE: He tells me that he could tell that something was bothering me and that he had been concerned that it was something he had done so that it had helped A LOT that I told him what was going on. Note to self: Letting h know what's upsetting me removes the worry and mystery. This is GOOD. I agree with him that this is a good thing and agree to do this in the future.
then we go to bed and I don't know, the sadness just caught up with me. I start crying...feeling really scared and sad...even start thinking to myself "listen, maybe this is just something that you can't do. it's ok to decide that the structure of this R. isn't working for you and to move on"...not in anger but just in the realization that my fears and anxieties feel like they're being rubbed raw right now.
Anyway...h asks me what's up. I take a deep breath and tell him that I'm feeling sad and scared. That his friendship with ff is bringing up a lot of feelings for me and that I'm struggling with it. He earnestly, lovingly asks if there's anything he can do to help.
I tell him that he's actually doing a great deal...by talking with me about her...by not being secretive about it.
I ask him if there's anything he can think of that would help...if he could put himself in my shoes (note: this was BAD. I think this was an attempt on my part to make him FEEL how scary this might be for me.) He answered that we approached things so differently that he didn't feel at all comfortable suggesting solutions.
I didn't pursue this...kind of wish I had...another time.
He said "if you want me to talk about it more or less often just tell me".
Good. The LAST thing I want is h going underground with this.
After a couple of minutes I say "One thing that would help, I think, is if we could talk about what things you were angry or unhappy with before your a."
He said "you want to talk about how I felt in the past?"
I said "well...we can talk about the past or the present moment...I'm just trying to get at the idea that if you were happy in our m then it wouldn't matter if you were surrounded by harem girls....I'm just thinking if we focused on strengthening our m. and talking honestly about your unhappiness in certain areas then it would go a long way to alleviating the anxiety."
we both went to sleep after that.
So...I'm glad that we talked a bit.
I wish that I had handled it better in some ways. I think that h handled things really lovingly.
I wish that I had expressed a few things differently:
1. I'm not suggesting that he's having an a. Not in a million years am I thinking that. This really doesn't feel like it's about me not TRUSTING him...it feels like it's about me really feeling sad and hurting and feeling anxiety and trying to figure out how to live with that.
Does that make sense? 2. I kind of wish that I had focused less on "h's unhappiness with our m" -- I'm not even sure what I mean here...I want to leave the door wide open to hear what h was going thru and I think by stating it as "unhappiness in our m" it constricts the conversation...I think I could have made it A LOT more open ("what do you think was going on with you?") so that it didn't seem as though I thought it was ALL ABOUT ME.
3. I wish I had articulated what I'm looking for this way...
h told me on more than one occasion that "ow isn't the problem" -- ok...I get that...
so, let's say that instead of having an a...h developed a cocaine addiction...
let's say that h is unhappy (perhaps not just in our m but in life in general) and his pain relief of choice is cocaine.
I'm thinking that his cocaine addiction may not be "the problem" (original) but it probably makes fixing the problem quite a bit harder.
So....let's say that h eventually gives up cocaine...returns to his life...starts rebuilding it, etc.
wouldn't one still want to look into this issue from two approaches:
1. What was it about the "life" that led h to seek pain relief and how can we avoid getting there in the future
2. Why was cocaine the pain relief of choice...why not something less dire, less hurtful? There's lots of ways to try to ease pain...why pick something that was going to add a very difficult layer onto the problem at hand?
Does any of this make sense?
Sage
PS h rocks.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
It's hard for you to accept the changes now coming your way, even though you are normally the champion of change. It's just that whatever's going on now isn't all that easy to understand. Situations are changing and circumstances will impact you in ways that can affect many areas of your life. Be proactive. State what you want. Say it out loud. Write it down. And keep your mind focused on these intended goals.
Sounds like the DB/DR thread is destiny!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
of course you make sense...but listen to what h says...
Quote: After a couple of minutes I say "One thing that would help, I think, is if we could talk about what things you were angry or unhappy with before your a."
He said "you want to talk about how I felt in the past?"
neither of you are the same person as you were in the past...believe it or not you BOTH have learned and grown from this experience.
Instead of looking for reasons why what happend happend (sheesh I hate to use the same word twice)...keep looking for ways to keep things from happening.
I know I know...how can I keep it from happening if I don't know why it happend.
let go of that line of thinking...going back there and trying to figure it all out isn't going to get you to where you want to be...stay in the now and work toward something that is better.
I'm glad that h was able to talk to you about this and I'm very glad that you let him know that what he is doing is helping. Sometimes our feelings about "stuff" are just that OUR feelings and they have very little to do with what our spouse is or isn't doing to help us with them.
oh and I must tell you how happy I was to read this
Quote: We get home and I use my idea of earlier (formulated with LL's help) and decide to use mention of FF as a sign that I need to speak h's LL...I mention to him a coupon in the paper for a BBQ place and suggest that we go sometime soon (QT).
always happy to know that I've helped especially someone who helps so many round here.
neither of you are the same person as you were in the past...believe it or not you BOTH have learned and grown from this experience.
Instead of looking for reasons why what happend happend (sheesh I hate to use the same word twice)...keep looking for ways to keep things from happening.
I know I know...how can I keep it from happening if I don't know why it happend.
let go of that line of thinking...going back there and trying to figure it all out isn't going to get you to where you want to be...stay in the now and work toward something that is better.
Yup. You are totally right...I need to stay in the here and now...figure out how to build on this good stuff...do things differently...
I DID have the realization yesterday that I think I'm struggling a lot with seeing how differently h handles things now...how many changes he has made in himself. Kind of like the WAS who clings to the "old" and can't see the "new" as real or lasting.
Thanks for the reminder to stop looking over my shoulder! Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: Yup. You are totally right...I need to stay in the here and now...figure out how to build on this good stuff...do things differently...
I DID have the realization yesterday that I think I'm struggling a lot with seeing how differently h handles things now...how many changes he has made in himself. Kind of like the WAS who clings to the "old" and can't see the "new" as real or lasting.
Thanks for the reminder to stop looking over my shoulder! Sage
before my seperation (but after disclosure of ow) and long before db when h and I were working on it (I look back now and realize HE WAS working on it I was just freaking out) h made alot of changes...he was trying..he was being him and doing things differently...it freaked me the heck out!
here's a way to look at it..if you cling to the "old" it will be everlasting...viewing things through your "old" glasses will no doubt keep some of that "old" around. Keeping on your "new" glasses and your new way of looking at and reacting (or not) to things is going to keep the "new" here for the long run...and yes sage..it's real! no one is going to say to you..ok you can wake up now.
and if you keep looking over your shoulder you are bound to trip and not see what is in front of you.
Quote: and if you keep looking over your shoulder you are bound to trip and not see what is in front of you.
It's kind of funny but one of the ongoing "battles" h and I have is that when I'm driving I tend to look in the rearview mirror a lot (I have this heightened fear of having someone smash into me at a stop light!). He always say "why are you looking behind you? why not look where you're going?"
Very Zen of h, no?
I've talked to him on the phone 2x today. both times he's been really, really loving and present. No negative effects of last night....he really and truly is "here" for me.
Amazing.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
1. What was it about the "life" that led h to seek pain relief and how can we avoid getting there in the future
This is a complex question. However, I'm gonna take a shot at this. I am a recovering alcoholic, as I think you know, and had to face up to the fact that my problems were of my own making. I have to be happy in order to share happiness with someone else. No one else can make me happy. Your H will learn this as he sees you doing it for yourself...it's contagious. I wanted my H to solve all my problems...wanted H to make me feel good about myself...but that's not how it works. When I figured that out...almost too late in R, but not too late, thank goodness, I started to work on me. I was not unhappy with H...I thought I was. I was really unhappy with ME. Once I started feeling better about myself, I was able to be better to myself and to my H. Then, wonder of wonders, my H started being better to me.
2. Why was cocaine the pain relief of choice...why not something less dire, less hurtful? There's lots of ways to try to ease pain...why pick something that was going to add a very difficult layer onto the problem at hand? Addictions aren't a reasonable thing. Be they sexual, drug, computer, or other oriented. And when we are not feeling good about ourselves, we seek comfort from outside sources. Often, we are also sooo self destructive, we don't believe we deserve anything good in our lives and we sabotage our primary REAL love relationships. It gets back once again to self esteem. I had to figure out that I deserved my H and my M and that I was worth loving. That loving had to start with me learning to love myself.
Does any of this make sense? Yes, Sage, it does. Hope my answers make a little bit of sense and help you a little.
