flowmom | need to commit to myself

[flowmom]

Another thing to consider is your H having the children more frequently on a set schedule may help the two of create joint goals.

That would be positive, but I think that it will take more than H getting over his head with responsibilities to make that happen. Something within him would have to shift and I'm not holding my breath for that.

[newmama]

so..every 8 days means ex: Fri, Sat, then the next week Sat, Sun, then the next week Mon, Tues...etc?

hmmm. Not every one works 8-5 Mon to Fri. But darn it I could see even if you had it posted a month ahead on the big calendar it will be like "are we going to daddy's in a couple of days?" or when you need to plan events, it will be random...

this is complex. Sorry to give the credit of seeing the psychologist to your WH! Oops! Of course I should have known it was you! But it might be a good idea to have an objective person help out.

What does Kalni say about the psych helping you set up the schedule?

[CityGirl]

I didn't necessarily mean joint goals between you and your H as a married couple it just seems that if the two of you had some practice with joint goals it might be good.

You had said that you and your H were on the same page about parenting but you also said much of the execution was left up to you and many times your H didn't approve or understand why things went the way they did.

IMO having joint goals in the arena of parenting means not only setting the goals together but executing them together.

It might not do anything for your M but it could at least give your H a new way to approach making joint goals and carrying them out. This may be equally as tough for you as it will require you to release some control to your H in regard to parenting along with you standing firm and not working around him all the time simply because he provides a paycheck.

[flowmom]

so..every 8 days means ex: Fri, Sat, then the next week Sat, Sun, then the next week Mon, Tues...etc?

Yup. It reallllly sucks to work around this schedule. And frankly in the D proceedings I am going to expect some concessions for that...not through custody arrangements but through other things. It's not fair that the next decade plus of my life will continue to revolve around the stupid schedule of his job that our family has paid a very high price for.

But darn it I could see even if you had it posted a month ahead on the big calendar it will be like "are we going to daddy's in a couple of days?" or when you need to plan events, it will be random...

Yup. To the kids there's really no rhyme or reason even if it's on the calendar. The entire family is constantly reminding themselves about H's work schedule because it never meshes with weekly rhythms, which even my homeschooled children have (classes, childcare, availability of school children, etc.).

[flowmom]

OK, what if I sent an email like this:

Hi Flowdad,

Thanks for giving me some time to think about idea of the children staying overnight with you more frequently.

I'd like us to try having the children stay with you 2 nights per 8 day shift for the next month. We can talk about where things stand after a month. Does this work for you?

Flowmom

If he agrees, a followup email:

You mentioned that you'd like to have the children over this Saturday and Sunday night. Perhaps you could email me what nights you'd like to have them for for the next month? We need to create some routines around who feeds them dinner and breakfast when they stay with you too.

Is there any way that I can set up some boundaries around communication? Like it's not OK to spring new info on me then try to bully me into communication and deciding on the spot? That the communication has to be a negotiation, not him telling me what he wants then mowing me down if I am not sure or disagree?

[CityGirl]

If a follow up e-mail is necessary I would say something like this:

Flowdad,

You mentioned you'd like to have the children over this Sat. and Sunday. What did you have in mind for the next month? I will need to check my schedule before I can solidify any plans. What did you have in mind for mealtime on the days we switch off?

Something like that (IMO) forces him to sort of participate more and gives him a clear idea that while you understand he has a work schedule, you have a life too!

[newmama]

I like the first email for sure- and I like Citygirl's suggestion for follow up and rationale!

Now as for setting boundaries about bringing stuff up on the spot and bullying you...maybe if he brings up stuff onthe spot, you say "Ok, I see you that you want to talk this. How about it if we discuss it at___ " (just a brainstorm.)

unfortunately we can't prevent people from bringing stuff up on the spot you know?

[rr22]

People don't view bringing stuff up as bullying. And likely he doesn't view it as "springing something on you." He might view it as good face-to-face communication instead of emailing or texting. You are in charge of how you handle other people's communication towards you. If it's not rude or loud or mean, it's not bullying; maybe just decisions just make you uncomfortable at this time. So you need to get different strategies in place for the types of situations that make you feel rattled before they come up. The IC can help with this too.

[Freckle6]

I'm sorry he's pushing this overnight stuff on you. I hated, hated that part. For overnights, my H originally asked for Friday nights until 12 noon Sat. only. He already watched our son because I worked a second job then. Then after a few months he asked if he could have him Fri and Sat. night. My stomach dropped and my heart felt like it was going to beat out of my chest. I asked him for time to think about it. In the end I asked if 2 nights every other weekend would be ok and he agreed to it. It's been that way for a couple years now. He also technically has two non-consecutive weeks in the summer but never asked for them and I never even brought it up because I don't willingly want S away that long.

My question/observation in your sitch is why does his visitation time have to coincide with his days off? He works outside of the "normal" M-F 9-5 thing. IMO, that's not your problem. You don't only get your kids when you have days off and it's convenient to your schedule, right? When you work you have other arrangements, I assume (unless you lock them in the basement until you get home. ).

The witchy, vindictive side of me would like to have you tell him, tough crap. You get every other weekend and Wednesday evenings like everyone else! If you have to work, you find a babysitter. Being a parent isn't only about taking it easy and having fun on days off. It's the drudgery of being drop dead tired from working all day and having to find that second wind to give your kids the attention and care they want from you. oh, and to do that trivial stuff like feed them and bathe them too. A handful of times over the years my H has called me during his time and asked if he could bring S home early because H wasn't feeling good from a cold or whatever. I'd always take him, but I'd laugh to myself that it must be nice to have that option.

I think a stable, fixed schedule works best for kids. They need to know what to expect and when to expect it. Transitions like this are hard on little ones. My family knows that Sunday afternoons after my son comes back from his 2 night weekends is shot, or as we call it, meltdown time, because he's overtired and all out of sorts. Do you have a L involved at all? What is the typical divorce/visitation thing in your state or area? Where I am, NY doesn't do joint physical custody (though I suppose if both parties want it that way, it is done) and the standard visitation time is the every other weekend thing.

[flowmom]

So H came over after dinner as usual and I successfully managed to be in a relaxed space, sitting at the table drawing with D3. I had music on, which helps me to resonate with a different mood. H actually sat on the other side of D3 and joined us at the table (hasn't happened before).

That set the tone for the bedtime routine. H asked how the day went (unusual). There was an opening when the children were in the other room and I casually said that I wanted to try the 2 days a shift for the next month and revisit. He looked almost surprised and said thanks! as if he had won something. I mentioned the idea of him suggesting dates and me checking my schedule to see if that works (thanks CG!). Then I said that at another time we can talk about setting up a routine for meals when the kids stay with him. Then I actually succeeded in a DB goal that I had scratched off my list because it seemed unrealistic: H made a joke to me and smiled while he was saying it! He was joking that he'd feed them junk food at his place (he knows I'm concerned about how he's been feeding them). I was a real joke, though, not an aggressive one. I'm guessing he was very relieved that I've "given in" on this one.

I'm choosing not to see it as giving in though. It's an experiment. There are many things that are not ideal about it including the wonkiness of the schedule. But realistically if I want to facilitate H bonding with the children, we will all have to work around his schedule because there are only some nights that are practical for him to take care of them. I can only hope that some equivalent concession to meet my needs will be possible in the D. I agree that this was going to happen sooner or later, and hopefully I've created some goodwill by allowing it to happen when H has requested it.

I haven't seen a L yet on the advice of my IC, who says that my "rights aren't going away". I just have to trust that H will do the right thing if this is not working for the children. Joint custody (= no child support) is common here I believe.

It's interesting. I think that the conversation last night did go well from H's POV, because he came here tonight with a qualitatively more open, warm mood even before I agreed to his request.

Don't think from this post that I'm reading much into the positive signs from tonight though. H adores his children and really does want a positive coparenting R with me. Part of his tension around me has probably been working himself up to "asserting his rights" around the overnights with the children and forward movement on that has probably relieved some of his stress, even our talk last night (getting it on the table). Hey, it's unlikely that our marriage is salvageable, but even if we can have a positive coparenting R one day, that's something worth working towards.