This is just my opinion but I think often times men say things like "whatever you want is fine by me" to be agreeable and easy going. And there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not all the time.
If I said to my H... I am craving pizza and he responded with "well, I am not craving pizza but if you are that is fine by me". IMO that is being flexible. There has to be a limit though. When I did try and broach the subject with my H about how I never felt like he never contributed to any decisions he would get angry and tell me that the reason he always said he didn't care what we did or where we went is he didn't care as long as we were together. That sounds nice but it is also nice to not have to make ALL the decisions (and this goes both ways of course).
I think sometimes one spouse thinks they are being easy going and agreeable by saying "anything is fine by me" without realizing the amount of pressure it puts on the other spouse when in fact all the "easy going" spouse is doing is trying to make the other happy.
Looking back I can see why my H became so defensive when I told him how I didn't like how I had to make all the decisions. In his mind he was being agreeable, easy going and flexible so why is that so bad? It's not "bad" per say it just made me feel like I was part of a one man team. I suppose I did resent him in a way and I started doing things without his input. Not super major things but I eventually got tired of "I don't care, whatever you want" so just took some matters in my own hands.
Funny how things become so clarified once you really step back.
I actually have a student this semester named Zoot.
Steve, What do you teach?
If you really are interested, I have a pt position with the Department of Biology at the University that I have been associated with. I have the Bio 102 lab and was asked to lecture the Botany elective this spring. Oh, and I have created an SPSS club. Which, fearing sounding "un-manly" on the maniest of most manly threads, is my background. LOL. Steve the plant sex guy.)
Anyhow, I have a very exciting spring set-up and if it all stays at the pace we are at I may actually be able to touch a bit on population ecology and show these kiddos how we ran RFLP gels back in the 90's.
I guess this is where the phrase " nice guys finish last" would come from ? maybe yes maybe no, it fits though...
I guess as a kid I was always taught by my mother to respect women. There was no book on how too, but "be nice" was the words she used.. My dad being from the old country was very "MAN" like.. It was only his way and for better or for worse my mother put up with it. It was the way it was and accepted that way. Please know that I am not saying this is right. I lived with that and wasnt always in agreement on his ways. Today its about finding the half way point so that the respect and the self worth is not jeapordized. I guess like all men on here we all thought that being nice was the right thing to do!... NOT!!
I truly believe that just before your married they should have courses on this kind of stuff. Teach both men and women how to become life long partners.
I can only say that I wish then what I know now. Life would be different. I had a session today with my IC and she basically told me that I need to do things that are shared on this thread. ( not bad on the eyes either) lol..
GAME ON!!!!..... LET THE CESCO TAKE CONTROL OF ME AND ONLY ME AND GAIN MY OWN SELF RESPECT AND PROVING THAT I AM WORTH IT!!!!..
I want to thank you for your continued support.. I dont post much as I am a rookie at this and feel that my advice is not senior enough.. I can only be supportive and continue to post. Its good for the anxiety..
Don't apologize for being a rookie, heck we're all rookies.
Get that anxiety under control, you have nothing to lose because technically you've lost what you had to begin with, it's already lost, you're fighting to get it back.
Let's get you started with some new points for you to consider going forward: - you don't need to pursue your wife, create some space, move in the opposite direction. Human nature dictates we pursue what we want and don't have but it also dictates that we run away from things that pursue us - you don't need to convince your wife that you're worth her approval, doing so communicates the opposite - you don't have to be worried about rocking the boat, afraid to upset your wife, rock the f!@#$* boat, it's OK, you won't drown - it's ok to mess up, don't worry about having alot to lose, technically you've lost it already but you're still worried about losing it, this is your anxiety talking and it translates in your body language and your actions towards your wife (a$$ kissing, supplicating, being overly nice, etc.) - if she rejects you it will be the most important event of your life and the end of the world..... no it won't. - you had better impress your wife as often as you can..... no you don't have to and it works against you if you try to do this - you should let your wife be in control of the entire situation you're in.... no you don't have to do that, it's ok to stand up for yourself if you feel she is taking advantage of you or using or abusing you, remember you have self-respect (and if you don't have self-respect put it on your to do list of most important things to do) - if your wife isn't interested in you, it must be your fault.... yeah partially but if another man is in the picture, there isn't much you can do about this except focus on living a great life for yourself and moving on, if she doesn't value you or the relationship she has with you, it's her loss, not yours, get into that mindset - "Nice guys" finish first and you had better be "nice" to your wife.... well I can agree you can be nice but don't be a "nice guy" who lets her walk all over you, being a doormat is extremely unattractive
[quote=cesco]I guess this is where the phrase " nice guys finish last" would come from ? maybe yes maybe no, it fits though...
I guess as a kid I was always taught by my mother to respect women. There was no book on how too, but "be nice" was the words she used..
Ahh, but Grasshoppah . . . the secret is learning how to be a nice guy, without being a Nice Guy.
Just in case you are getting swayed with this talk, let's just say this advice is the pits.
You know who doesn't go for the Nice Guys? Nutso women. If you want a space-case, flakey, drama-seeking woman, then by all means, don't be the Nice Guy. You will probably get a lot of easy sex, since those women are bad at setting boundaries of what they think is appropriate or not.
You think we pursue what we can't have? Yeah, that's true...if you're 15.
If you are adult, you make good, healthy, emotionally satisfying choices. All of my friends who are divorced & now remarried, or widowed and remarried or married later in life, all of them chose the Nice Guy. Consistently, they are all very happy. And at peace.
If you're older than 25 and still going after the bad boy, well, that's a huge red flag.
If you are a Nice Guy by nature, don't change it unless you feel a need to. If your wife doesn't appreciate it, then it is her loss. HER LOSS. Don't let her deficincies corrode who you are. Stay true to your spirit, what you like most about yourself. From that positivity will come growth and from that, you'll be at peace with who you are and where you are in your life. That peacefulness is what is attractive. Someone who is at harmony with himself is attractive.
It is also sexually attractive too. I remember one of the best times of my marriage was when we were at total peace, after our 2nd baby was born. I smelled like puke most of the time, he was overweight. But we were where we wanted to be in our lives, and it was hot. Not porno hot, which never seems hot to me, but real life hot. We looked like messes and we were in harmony with ourselves and each other.
And, even if it takes years to find, and I'm not seeing anyone at all until after I know I'm clear from any STDs my stbx-h might have picked up when he cheated, I am certain I will go after a Nice Guy. But to each his or her own.
If you are adult, you make good, healthy, emotionally satisfying choices. All of my friends who are divorced & now remarried, or widowed and remarried or married later in life, all of them chose the Nice Guy. Consistently, they are all very happy. And at peace.
fyi - people tend to get less picky when the available choices aren't as numerous as they previously were the first time around ;-)
That's right! Knitted Scarf, how dare you presume to know what women want! You, being a woman and all. How could you even possibly know, when we have pros here to tell us this stuff!
It is also sexually attractive too. I remember one of the best times of my marriage was when we were at total peace, after our 2nd baby was born. I smelled like puke most of the time, he was overweight. But we were where we wanted to be in our lives, and it was hot. Not porno hot, which never seems hot to me, but real life hot. We looked like messes and we were in harmony with ourselves and each other.
I understand what you are saying about finding a place of harmony however marriage is not a stagnant institution. Eventually that harmony must evolve in some way. Obviously the harmony didn't evolve in a satisfying way for the both of you to maintain longevity.
I agree that in ALL marriages there are brief (or maybe extended) periods of harmony but the circumstances that helped create that harmony will always change. For example: your baby will grow up and not need as much as attention. Then what? One can't rely on a good chunk of harmony to carry them through a lifetime and some evolution has to take place. IMO people rely on natural evolution to "fix things" (EX: thinking things have a way of working out) when in fact sometimes some "manual labor" is necessary.
I like nice guys also. Guys that think they are bad ass are a total turn off to me and most women I know. I don't think the men contributing to this thread are really suggesting for anybody to become a bad ass. Think of your own situation and apply the same thought process. You said your H's affair was a deal breaker. Fine. I don't think anybody can blame you. You did not waiver on that stance because you were a Nice Girl. No. You would not stand for such betrayal and disrespect. That doesn't mean you aren't a nice girl. It means you aren't a Nice Girl.
That's right! Knitted Scarf, how dare you presume to know what women want! You, being a woman and all. How could you even possibly know, when we have pros here to tell us this stuff!
I like nice guys also. Guys that think they are bad ass are a total turn off to me and most women I know. I don't think the men contributing to this thread are really suggesting for anybody to become a bad ass.
