flowmom | need to commit to myself

[DiamondGirl]

Even they start pushing back and acting upset about the increased overnights, by then H will be expecting them to stick with the program and expecting me to back him up.

He can expect it, but it doesn't mean you have to agree with him or let his expectations decide the path. You are an individual and equal with regards to your views on your children and their emotional well being. You can make an informed opinion separate from his and are entitled to do so.

What are your expectations of him? You have a right to them too.. Doesn't mean he has to live up to them either though...

[Kalni]

So my question is, (and not meant in any way accusingly or negatively) is the gradual transition for his benefit or yours?

My point exactly!! I know in my case, I resisted because of my needs...
K

[flowmom]

I agree that sometimes children need to be pushed outside their comfort zone, but the home base is where they recharge their batteries and cope with the demands of the outside world.

I challenge separated parents to ask themselves: what if I had to start sleeping at someone else's house 2 or 3 nights a week, on their schedule? So often we expect children to adjust to things that we wouldn't expect of ourselves.

I do have concerns about H taking on more and more parenting. He had anger management issues all fall and a lot of the anger was directed at the children. It never got into physical abuse, but it did cross boundaries that H and I have as parents (we choose not to hit our children). And there are two punched-in doors in our home from his rages (angry at me). I am not seeing that anger now, but I don't know if that's because H now has the space and sleep in his apartment. He always blamed his problems on sleep problems with the kids when he lived here. I took on more and more parenting to protect the children from his horrible moods. Maybe him moving out is a magic wand for all that, but I doubt it, esp if H is taking on a huge parenting role in addition to his full time job, his business, his sport, wanting to start new sports, wanting to date or already being in a R, etc.

Yes, the transition of more overnights would be brutal for me. That's why I wish that there was more guidance on what IS right for the children in a situation like this.

I guess the feedback that I'm getting here is to mostly let H have as much overnight visitation as he wants, then to insist on scaling back if there are negative impacts. I will have to seriously think on this. I agree that it would be good "DB strategy", but I don't know if it's good strategy for advocating for my children as all current arrangements are likely to become cast in stone legally. I don't think that I can trust H to acknowledge negative impacts on the kids.

[talia]

Hi FM,
I haven't read your entire thread but I wanted to chime in... FWIW...

It seems to me, with my limited knowledge, that you both love your kids. I think parents are pulled in the direction of feeling that THEY are the best person to take care of their kids - which is great until there is no "they" anymore. Reality is - if you D - your H is going to get the kids for some kind of schedule that probably involves more than one overnight a week. It might be best to work out the kinks now vs later. I disagree with your generalization that you should allow H to have them whenever he wants. That's the extreme - I don't think anyone here is saying that.

Give the two night a week thing a try - for say a month - and tell H that is the plan. That will give you three 8 day cycles and see how the kids do. If you don't have a psychologist for them - get one. They can be instrumental when the D negotiations come up, telling everyone what the true and objective affects really are on the kids. You will still have them 6/8 days - you aren't handing them over by any means.

They are still HIS children too and they need to spend time with him - just make sure you take it step by step. I would explain to H that you are open to trying it, that you are getting a child psychologist involved and you will re-evaluate after a month, two months, etc. Make it clear that if there are issues you will change it - and then give it enough time to really see if the issues pop up.

You won't know what will happen until you try it. Just remember - our lives are full of absolutely horrible things, that never happen!


Just MHO - Hope it helps!


T

[newmama]

Okay, I am coming around to see what Kalni is saying. She has been there done that after all and is now piecing,right?

I agree that the way we act about giving the kids to the spouse for visitation and how we tak about the spouse is influential in how well the kids handle this (based on psychological research).

The kids will feel guilty for saying they enjoy being with dad if they think you don't want them to enjoy it, so they will try to make YOU feel better if they think you are not happy and it will mess with their heads! (in layman's terms)

Now a point that makes sense is that the gradual transition is for us, the mom. Because as you know with kids, they can adjust to something if it becomes a regular part of their schedule and our attitudes are positive.

As a teacher I have seen my students get disorganized and have sleep issues when they have random visits- I had one girl who would go to her dad's 2x one week, 1x the next 3x the following, repeat....it was consistent but not good for her ability to function at school!

And I have had the week on, week off kids, then the usual every other day scenario. The parents have to be highly organized and I have seen several sets who will both be civil and come to the conferences together.

As for what Diamondgirl has said about her son with Autism, I have observed exactly what she is talking about as a sped teacher and general ed teacher.

Still there is the "just do it" method of this whole custody issue and there must be "do it the best you can" method!

[CityGirl]

Maybe him moving out is a magic wand for all that, but I doubt it, esp if H is taking on a huge parenting role in addition to his full time job, his business, his sport, wanting to start new sports, wanting to date or already being in a R, etc.

I guess maybe this is what your C was sort of guiding you towards. Less focus on your H. If your H has to work and WANTS to focus on his business, sports and a new R all of that is his to own and organize. As his single parenting duties increase he will find that he can't do it all. In a way you are enabling him to have a very easy separation. I am not suggesting for you to be ugly or nasty to him but let him try and do all that along with being a single parent. He might realize rather quickly the grass isn't quite as green as he thought.

If the two of you were to divorce I would gather since he is the income earner his work schedule would be considered when custody was arranged. While I agree the cycles of his work are rather inconvenient for custody arrangements right now it is what it is. I am not minimizing that it may be difficult for your children but some concessions will have to be made as your H must continue to earn an income.

I know you will worry and miss your children greatly but your H seems to have a very romantic notion about how simple it will be to keep all these balls in the air (work, side business, sports, single life and single parenting). The only way that bubble will burst is by letting him experience it. On the bright side of all of that it will give you three days a week to really buckle down and get some work done so your income becomes more stable.

Yes, the transition of more overnights would be brutal for me. That's why I wish that there was more guidance on what IS right for the children in a situation like this.

I don't have children myself but maybe there is no 110% concrete right answer and a bit of trial and error will be necessary to find a balance.

I guess the feedback that I'm getting here is to mostly let H have as much overnight visitation as he wants, then to insist on scaling back if there are negative impacts. I will have to seriously think on this. I agree that it would be good "DB strategy", but I don't know if it's good strategy for advocating for my children as all current arrangements are likely to become cast in stone legally. I don't think that I can trust H to acknowledge negative impacts on the kids.

If you are that concerned about setting a precedent with custody why not at least consult with an attny before you agree to anything. You don't need to tell your H about the consultation nor do you have to put anything in writing or file anything. Simply look at it as an informational meeting. You seem certain your H has gotten some sort of legal counsel. Why not do the same for yourself?

[Kalni]

I never meant to give him as much as he wants ignoring the kid's reactions or pushing you over the limit. I am saying, because I lived it, that having the kids lets say 2 nights every other weekend sounds "fair" to me for the kids and your H. You will be watching, monitoring, get a C as suggested, fake it with them, make them feel it is something you are "OK" with, be strong for them. They are looking up to you. How do you think they would feel if they see/saw their ONE full time parent, their pillar of strength, struggling, feeling sad, upset etc etc. You have to be teh consistent one, the safe one here. NOT EASY, I know... They take strength from you, not the other way around.

FYI I am saying this NOW. I wasnt like this at first. I started acting like this because of "dark" motives, I wanted to bust his bubble, I wanted to stop the visits at home like guests do, an afternnon here, a morning there... It drove the kids mad. He got the kids the first weekend he moved out, but I allowed that cause I needed time to cry my eyes out, couldnt have them watching me... As I was getting stronger, I needed the time alone, and he had to take on some responsibilities. For quite some time I would hide the difficulties they were facing, he was accusing me of making things up, then one time my BF told me that I was harming the kids shutting their dad out of their emotional state. He got some pretty harsh lectures from their C...

The anger you witnessed is probably because of guilt and "internal pressure". My H did the same. Towards the kids as well. All that while living with us. When he moved out, most of it, like 99%, stopped (the other 1% I consider it healthy).

You are not helpless. You are NOT giving him power by allowing time with the kids, you WILL be the parent that they will feel closer to. Have no doubts.

If he cant handle his schedule, well, that is HIS problem. Let him come to you with a solution. And believe me, he will. DO not accommodate him. Have your schedule, your plans with the kids, your life. He has to do the same when he has them.

I remember once he took them and 3 hours later he called, my D had high fever. I was out for drinks. It took ALL I had not to insist to bring her back. I offered he didnt wnat to. When they came back, he told me my D was calling for mommy. It made a big impact on him. Of course, I trusted him with the kids. I hope you do too.

flo, this is a fight. Fight for you life and their lives. Fight wisely and always look at the big picture. Reinvent yourself, grow, spread your wings. Make a plan to become financially independent, read, learn, laugh (and cry as needed). I told my H this time when he came around, one thing I am sure of now, is that any kind of love left for him, it is not because I need him, if I need him, it is because I love him (a little). 3 years ago, it was very different. I can do anything, or at least, that is how I feel. And that is a "useful confidence", especially in piecing.
You can do this.
K

[Kalni]

Ohh and our C kept repeating that whatever we decide upon must be a strict schedule. Kids adjust and feel better when they know there is one...

[CityGirl]

Another thing to consider is your H having the children more frequently on a set schedule may help the two of create joint goals.

You said your H was very good at making individual goals but not very good at making joint goals with you. If your H wants to work, run a side business and do sports AND be a parent he is going to have to (A) give something up (B) hire help or (C) learn how to make joint goals with you.

Once you spread your wings a bit more you will also have to make joint goals with him or you will have to (A) give something up (B) hire help or (C) again, make joint goals.

I sense your H sees you as a bit rigid when it comes to the children. I understand the circumstances and why you had to take over so much of the parenting duties but now might be the time to show your H a new side of you.

You want the best for you children. But one way for your H to really see with his own two eyes what is not working is for him to have to make some heavy decisions, deal with unpleasant circumstances when it comes to the children and accept you are not there to work around his schedule. It may or may not force him to sort of look at how he deals with things but at least the issues will be more present to him.

[flowmom]

I am saying, because I lived it, that having the kids lets say 2 nights every other weekend sounds "fair" to me for the kids and your H.

H wants to immediately start 2 overnights every 8 days, so that would be almost double what you're suggesting.

How do you think they would feel if they see/saw their ONE full time parent, their pillar of strength, struggling, feeling sad, upset etc etc. You have to be teh consistent one, the safe one here. NOT EASY, I know... They take strength from you, not the other way around.

I think I am doing really well on this! At least what I project with my face and words. They must see and sense the shadow at times, but probably not in a way that they would directly associate with their visits with H. This is one of the things that I am managing to pull off because I am very clear on how important this is for the children.

The anger you witnessed is probably because of guilt and "internal pressure". My H did the same. Towards the kids as well. All that while living with us. When he moved out, most of it, like 99%, stopped

Interesting parallel.

I trusted him with the kids. I hope you do too.

I do.

flo, this is a fight. Fight for you life and their lives. Fight wisely and always look at the big picture. Reinvent yourself, grow, spread your wings. Make a plan to become financially independent, read, learn, laugh (and cry as needed). I told my H this time when he came around, one thing I am sure of now, is that any kind of love left for him, it is not because I need him, if I need him, it is because I love him (a little). 3 years ago, it was very different. I can do anything, or at least, that is how I feel. And that is a "useful confidence", especially in piecing.

This is a clear roadmap for me Kalni. I admire the journey that you've taken. It sounds like it's been really hard, and really rewarding. I hugely appreciate your wisdom and guidance.