One day at a time....

[Butterfly1]

So it's all about her, eh? OF course it is. Well you should relish the fact that he is just not responding. And more than trusting him , I would trust your gut. If your gut says he's telling the truth, listen to it.

You're quite strong and will get through this. I don't know how you do it with going through an OW. I am just glad he sees how lucky his is to have you!

[rockedworld]

So...huge argument last night. S18 was visiting, we were both looking forward to it. S18 gets snippy with both of us at various points in the evening. H makes legitimate point that he defended me telling S18 not to talk to me like that but when S18 talked to his dad like that I didnt say anything. Valid. I apologize. He continues and says that's not good enough, this has been going on a long time etc. I say OK so I will try to work on it. Not good enough, I don't understand how this affects him, sends him on a downward spiral thinking S18 resents him deeply for not only the last year but all the choices we have made that have affected him throughout his life and that we have failed him etc. Now, I'm getting upset... this is over the top, not fair to us, making assumptions about how S18 is feeling. When I try to say that, H gets upset how I don't hear him, understand him.... I get upset because I feel I don't deserve this and doesn't he realize how many of my needs are not being met b/c he is so depressed and I am trying to be patient and understanding.... I am really not feeling well, had asked for some TLC and he didn't respond earlier in the evening b/c he was upset with me about the above.

Long story short, it escalated to talk of S. I don't know if he meant it or was just mad. I am devestated, feel hopeless. Financial stress getting worse, feeling sick, lonely, unmet needs, overwhelmed, work is getting very demanding, raising teenagers is hard etc.

Honestly, I do not know how to get through this day let alone to continue with this.

Tried to talk to H a little this morning. He is pale, looks horrible and said "I can't go there" and left for work.

If you are inclined in that direction please pray for me. I am really struggling and I don't know how to keep doing this.

[Butterfly1]

I totally understand how the parenting thing blows up around the WAH's insecurities around leaving. My H does this too.

My answer is, "well, that's a consequence of you leaving." And walk away. HOwever, if he needs to be heard, what worked for me recently (lord knows it doesn't always - but hey, it's worth a try ) is the "listen and validate" thing. "I can see how you would feel that way" and "Tell me more about that" and "why do you think you feel that way".

The last thing sounds like you need to be heard as well. Hopefully if he feels heard you will get the same in return.

But it sounds to me like these are his insecurities. They are not yours to fix. You can listen, but if he continues to be angry and take it out on you, you can walk away.

Don't take the S talk personally. Ignore it. Sounds like that came after big escalation. That usually comes out of hurt and frustration, not a rational decision. Seriously, it's not the issue and don't waste your time on it.

H is feeling like a failure and you are feeling unsupported. THese are the core issues. Is there a way you can help each other navigate these feelings?

[rockedworld]

It doesn't feel like there is a way right now Hope. He is shutting me out and he is spiraling down. I can feel it. He has been battling feeling like his life is all s*#t even before the A and now it is worse. I don't know. Something feels different to me about this argument. I think he meant it. I think he is giving up. I think he thinks things are just getting worse instead of better and he has done too much damage. I feel very, very hopeless right now.

[Butterfly1]

I know it doesn;t feel like it. But there is. Just not today. There's always hope. He's going through his own spiral, and taking you down with him. You are doing so well there's no way he's going to throw this out. It's not about you! He has to go through his process.

[Lost Rabbit]

RW huge hugs I have a 22yr old S, when he was 17/18 he drove me to distraction and he sure knew the best ways of turning my key. H and I had always worked together to parent him between us..

Firstly has your H got any treatment for his depression, he sounds like he really needs to if he hasnt. Perhaps leave it for a few days and see if H will talk about a joint plan of action, the things that both of you agree is unacceptable behaviour from S to either of you. Perhaps if you can do this you will both know what is required of the other and then no blame can be attributed and the bonus will be S will get to tow the line when he realises he can play either of you off agaisnt the other!

Good news S's get better well mine has lived to 22 so theres a start lol!

[pearlharbr]

Deep breaths Rocked.

I agree with H4L on the listening and validating. Perhaps H needs to vent about things and you're the unlucky target. I find it a little odd that he sounds so emotionally out of control even though he's seeing the IC regularly.

And again I second what H4L said about it's not your problem to fix. You can make it clear that you'll support him working out his issues but they are his issues. Remember that.

I have been a total slacker about sending the book. I'm so sorry, it just got lost. But I will get to the post office today! And I also have a copy of After the Affair for you too. I had forgotten that we each bought a copy since we were living apart at the time we were doing the exercises. Hopefully it won't take too long to get to you.

In the meantime, don't try to read his mind. I understand that you can tell that he sounded different. But that doesn't mean anything permanent is going to happen. And even if he does say he wants to separate again it won't be the end of the world. H can make his own choices and you will deal with them because you are a strong woman and you can make it through anything.

[Freckle6]

I don't have any wise words, but you're in my thoughts.

[rockedworld]

Thanks my friends.

I am doing better today. Yesterday, after I posted last, I called H. I listened and validated. And, at the same time kept my own self dialogue going about reminding myself these are HIS issues. This seemed to make a huge difference for him. H then took our S out for lunch and made an attempt to connect with him on a more positive level. I think that helped too.

He is seeing his IC regularly, but I really have to wonder how honest he is being with her. So far, he has refused to even consider AD meds. He takes St. John's wort and vitamins, but that is as far as he will go. But, I wonder if his IC knew he spirals like this if she would insist he consider meds. I am going to explore with him how honest he is being with her.

But... this leads me to my ongoing issue about "fixing" and "rescuing". I get stuck with trying to figure out how much to leave him to sort all of this out, while being supportive... vs. getting involved in helping because this affects me too.

This morning he decided to stay in bed and not go to work because he is "not feeling well". I think it is the depression. It is extremely unusual for him to miss work. Before I left for work, I gave him a kiss while lying in bed and he grabbed my hand and said "Are you going to leave me?" I teased him that I'm just going to work and he said it again.

I can't be his caretaker. I am barely able to take care of me right now, not to mention the kids, my job, the financial stress etc.

This is harder than I ever imagined.

Today, I am just breathing, using grounding techniques I learned in IC and trying to take care of me.

[flowmom]

RW, when we were in MC, the C felt that it wasn't her role to diagnose depression or push that label on H even though it was clearly affecting him and our M. I got the impression that she doesn't believe in AD either. She would say things like, "if you are depressed, that is affecting your M". But she felt that he had to own it himself and decide to do something about it. I'm not sure if I agree with her though. I think that a lot of people seek help for depression because of the feedback that they get from others, not because they internally recognize that they need help.

It sucks if your H's IC is not helping him address the depression in an effective way.

I would handle the depression issue with kids gloves. I really regret how I dealt with it with H. I like the advice in DR about how to deal with depression.

Hard times. But it sounds like you're handling it really well. Listen and validate is totally the way to go. Resisting the urge to fix/manage is totally the way to to go.