flowmom | need to commit to myself

[flowmom]

H4L, can I just say no to more than one overnight a week? If I don't agree to what H wants, he's going to want me to go with him to the psychologist to do the coparenting plan. It feels like he's in such a rush. They've only stayed overnight with him twice and now he wants to fast forward on HIS schedule.

[newmama]

I totally agree that based on everything I read, part of the WAS script is "oh the kids are fine! THEY LIKE this arrangement!" blah blah (just re-read Kalni's first paragraph)

And ohhh yes- the mirroring effect.Have you been putting on a happy face when the kids stayed at their dad's? Encouraged the KIDS to have a good time? I can see you doing that!

As for letting him take the kids an extended time....will you write this out on a monthly calendar so the kids know when they are coming and going? It looks confusing!

But why not a compromise? And where are you getting this custody schedule from anyway? I see the 180 opportunities- not arguing with WH and saying "I changed my mind. Go for it! That will give me time to focus on my life as well" because he will see how freaking hard it is, the kids will not act like it is fun forever so he will see it hurts them, and he could get nervous about what you are doing when you don't have the kids and are "focusing on your life."

HOWEVER- as I know you know,loving mom! What is best for the kids? Seriously- how will they handle coming and going? Is there a way to test it out? I don't know. I guess if you ever did D they would have to live that life (as would my S). One could argue that they could sacrifice this crazy life for a temporary while until you get to recover your marriage- that it is better to sacrifice in the short term if it improves the likelihood of recovering your M.

Also- the way you communicate with him (calm, give more than you take, avoid sounding defensive) will help show the 180 in your behavior. As for how often he gets the kids...tough call. (I vote for gradual-but it is none of our business- and DO NOT assume he is going straight to D without passing Go! Maybe he is just trying this identity out- I don't know!)

[newmama]

If I don't agree to what H wants, he's going to want me to go with him to the psychologist to do the coparenting plan.

I just saw this- Flowmom, going to the psychologist could work in your favor! I mean it is a way to get what is best for the kids without you being the one to say it...an objective party.

IN FACT, I seriously, as a child advocate, recommend that YOU tell Flowdad that you want to set this up with the psychologist! Like

"you know, I was thinking. It was a good idea of yours to meet with the psychologist to arrange our visitation schedule/co parenting plan. Do you want me to set that up? When are you available? "

make it HIS idea, agree with him- 180 180 180! and again, do you really think the psychologist will agree to suddenly change this on the kids, especially your son who has Autism?

[flowmom]

Ohh come on!!!! The guy is in deep fog whatever this fog consists of. You expect his "paternal instinct" to be intact in the middle of this... No way! If he would agree that the kids were distressed he would be admitting he f@cked up as a father hurting and "leaving" them!!! No way he would do that. NO WAY. Very common. I keep repeating my experience but it's the only thing I know and I hope it helps you in some way. My H argued with and ignored the kid's therapist when she said they were really really sad and upset. For months!! He wouldnt believe me when I said they were having meltdowns, he kept saying "I dont know what you do to them, with me they are fine!!"... GRRRRRRR....

That makes sense...the underlying defensiveness. That must have been so hard and frustrating.

I know it's against your judgement, I am thinking you SHOULD give him the kids for extended times, call it a try to see how it goes, use phrases as "that would allow me to focus on my life as well".

I would consider *trying* it, but I can't see how that could happen without it being precedent-setting. And if it was making things worse for the kids, I wouldn't be able to count on my H to acknowledge it and make adjustments. Once the precedent was established, how on earth would I be able to back things up? Won't whatever falls into place now establish what will happen after D? It feels like we are making big decisions about how to raise our children with almost no process.

Regarding the kids: I dont know about yours, mine were mirroring MY emotional state. I could influence their well being very much. Dont understimate your role in this even whe they are with him. HOw you talk to them on the phone, how you see them off, your smiles, body language... Kids notice and respond.

I'm being super careful about how I am around them, but of course they must pick up on some of my distress subconsciously. Nothing I can really do about that...I am dealing with grief and I can't protect them from that 100%

[flowmom]

If I don't agree to what H wants, he's going to want me to go with him to the psychologist to do the coparenting plan.

I just saw this- Flowmom, going to the psychologist could work in your favor! I mean it is a way to get what is best for the kids without you being the one to say it...an objective party.

IN FACT, I seriously, as a child advocate, recommend that YOU tell Flowdad that you want to set this up with the psychologist! Like

"you know, I was thinking. It was a good idea of yours to meet with the psychologist to arrange our visitation schedule/co parenting plan. Do you want me to set that up? When are you available? "

make it HIS idea, agree with him- 180 180 180! and again, do you really think the psychologist will agree to suddenly change this on the kids, especially your son who has Autism?

Well, I initiated the whole coparenting plan thing because H was pressuring really hard about mediation right when he separated from me. I had no idea what to do so I came up with the coparenting plan idea as an alternative "let's just tackle one thing at a time". I found the person and H went to see her once by himself and I was supposed to do the same. I didn't follow through because the DB coach advised against it because 1. the coparenting was going OK at the time and 2. she thought it would invite a lot of divorce talk. The coparenting plan hasn't been brought up by either of us since shortly after the separation. Maybe it would be a good idea.

[flowmom]

Seriously- how will they handle coming and going?

Part of the tricky thing is that they love novelty. For a while they will have fun with it, esp if H continues to continually feed them treats and restaurant food that they don't get with me . They want to be part of H's life. They're not great with transitions, though. I would expect that to become more of an issue over time, but it wouldn't necessarily be obviously directly correlated. For example, S6 had a really bad fall term, because he was overscheduled for him IMO. His behaviours went way downhill. But H never accepted my interpretation of the problem. Even they start pushing back and acting upset about the increased overnights, by then H will be expecting them to stick with the program and expecting me to back him up.

[Kalni]

Part of the tricky thing is that they love novelty.

Good, would you prefer it if they were upset, complained, didnt feel safe with their dad?

They're not great with transitions, though.

You know best but I have a feeling they will surprise you as long as their dad makes them feel loved. PLUS, do NOT, I repeat DO NOT borrow troubles from the future. If indeed something goes wrong, you will be ther, watching like a mama bear to do what you have to, to protect them.

I would expect that to become more of an issue over time, but it wouldn't necessarily be obviously directly correlated.

Could be that it will get worse. My experience says, it will get better (as long as their dad behaves as their dad of course). I remember, deep inside, wanting my kids to be upset, to complain, to show him they were upset. VERY selfish, I know. I am ashamed of myself. But I am being honest. I was hoping they would force him to think again. Once I figured it was in mine and their best interest to have a good time with theri dad, connect and bond, I was able to be happy with their excitement, not feel jealous of the 400$/per night hotels, or the gifts etc. (at least I had my feelings under control).
I did point out to H when I thought he was overdoing it and he always listened, I did notice how the kids felt/reacted when they returned home, but I stopped having arguments for the "sake of the kids" when it really was for the sake of me. And H noticed that. I actually ended up FORCING him to spend more time with them and told him I would go for shared custody instead of having sole custody on my own. Guess what? He tried to convince me it wasnt legally possible... He didnt want to share the custody.

I am just trying to point out, that you should try and stay positive. For the kid's sake.
K

PS Like it or not, IMO, you have great responsibility of how kids react to this phase. They pick up things, they watch you, overhear your calls, feel your warmth, sense your insecurity, feel your sadness. I chose to show them in the begining I was upset and very sad cause I couldnt fake it, crying 24/7, looking miserable etc etc. I think that hurt them most. When they saw me happy, they were different kids. I cant change the past but I can sure tell you about my mistakes to protect you from doing the same.

[HeartsBlessing]

Good morning, Flowmom,

Just catching up with what's going on within your thread; :)You are getting some GREAT advice from people; straightforward and to the point from people who are there, and have been there.
It doesn't make you feel so alone when people can identify with what you're going through.
This is the BEST kind of advice you can get, as well as great support.
I just wanted to check on you, see how you were this morning, for a few minutes.
I've had you on my mind and in my prayers.

Have a great day, be kind to yourself; you truly deserve it!

Much love,
HB

[DiamondGirl]

* when I am engaged in my life, try to adopt the "chop wood carry water" mentality

I just wondered what the above suggestion meant? Some of the things your IC mentioned are things I'm doing as well..

Thanks,

[DiamondGirl]

Hi Flowmom,

As you know my son is 13 and has Autism as well. I don't know where exactly your son falls on the spectrum in relation to mine, but I've realized something along the way about my son that I want to share with you...

They're not great with transitions, though.

I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but there is a tendency to overprotect our children with Autism from transition, because we know it is difficult for them. I realized when my son started elementary school that it was my job (IMO) to not necessarily protect him or change the speed of transitions, but more to facilitate his going through them.
For example, at the beginning, he clung to his EA (educational assistant) and did not want to have another working with him. I realized that in the world, as an adult, he would have to deal with different people daily, with all their differences (personality, looks, smells etc) and at some point be able to work with them spontaneously. So we started to rotate EA's with him. At first he resisted, but with visual schedule support, within 2 weeks he was fine with it. He learned that things change and you have to go with the flow (no pun intended ) Now he has learned to love it when he gets a substitute EA.. cuz he gets away with murder by pretending he can't do the things he regularly does with his usual teachers...

I guess my point is that as parents of special needs kids, our focus has to be on the future more so than with "normal" kids. To prepare them for what they may encounter when we aren't around to protect them or guide them. Growth comes from the unexpected sometimes, and I know our special kids need help handling the unexpected but not necessarily to be protected from it. The tools to handle the unexpected have to be taught with them, step by step, broken down (as I'm sure you know).

At this point, you don't know what will happen at the end of this journey, with your marriage. Your son may have to adjust to the fact that you will go away sometimes.. but will come back. That he may have to stay for long periods of time overnight at other people's homes... But wouldn't he if he were a "normal" kid having a sleepover weekend at a friend's house?

As for your H, he has high expectations perhaps because he hasn't had to deal with the reality enough to realize that he needs to lower them.

It's kind of difficult to do a gradual transition, because your son is aware that daddy isn't living at home anymore. It's already happened suddenly. After years of sleeping there, H isn't anymore.

So my question is, (and not meant in any way accusingly or negatively) is the gradual transition for his benefit or yours?