Looking for help with WAW

[jasper67]

I agree w/ Sandi and w/ Steve

do not pursue- listen to the message W gave you- it's the truth...I also believe there is some script but the messages were sincere- she wants to be challenged, and wants you to let go

Hard things to accept- but do it anyway-

At x-mas this year, W just wanted to have a nice day...I became so emotional thinking it was our last (probably was) and did everything wrong- I ruined her x-mas by putting my needs first, AGAIN

Its tough to do, but give her the space to miss you and start to embrace not being w/ her- you will starte to exude confidence and the power struggle will shift

[mza8]

Sandi, Steve, Maynard, thank you. I can't help but think of my sitch lately and feel nothing but despair/hopelessness. I feel like I will never be given another chance by my W. I ask myself why? I feel like her mind is made up and there's no changing it. Sometimes I question why I should even bother. I don't want to give up but it's hard to feel hopeful when my W seems convinced this is what she wants and tells me she won't change her mind.

Steve, your comments raise an interesting view about my W wanting to be challanged. I hadn't thought about it that way. I thought she meant she wanted to be challenged by having someone who would challange her intellectually, emotionally. Otherwise I still am really not sure what she means by being with someone who challanges her. She did say she wants to be challanged by her work. I agree with you that challanges/work does boost her ego. So your perspective on why she wants to be challenged is something I hadn't thought about. I'm afraid that she doesn't want to be challanged by me though. I hate feeling this way, insecure, anxious, nervous about what will happen. I do try very hard to show confidence around my W. When we talked I didn't think I was acting needy. I felt that I was trying to be mature about this sitch and try to talk to my W about it. I didn't think I begged or pleaded. Instead I was just looking to have a healthy conversation about things since we have been together for so long I figured that this should be something we can talk about. From all of the advice given to me it seems that even though I see things one way that it's really the wrong way to handle this sitch. Your view definitely gives me something to think about.

Sandi, this is so hard...so hard to know the right thing to do all of the time. I do not want to lose this wondeful woman. I kick myself in the a$$ everyday how I didn't "wake-up" a long time ago when I could have done something to save my M. I can look back and see some of the times/signs that my W gave me and I didn't listen. Why does it have to come to this for couples to finally see the issues and take steps to try to improve the M? Why didn't I make these changes when I had the chance? What a fool I have been. I'm afraid that I have now lost the best thing that ever happened in my life. Maybe it's easier for some people to just move on and find someone new. I can't do that. I don't want anyone else. After being apart from my W for 5 months all it has done is make me realize just how much I love my W. I knew I always loved her but now I know what effect she has on my life.

I'm not trying to be selfish, needy, pursuing, causing her stress, pushing her further away. I'm honestly trying to do the right thing. I'm trying to take away the stresses of the house, car, etc. even though it's not in my best interest as I will not make out well at all by agreeing to her way that she wants to handle these issues. So I'm willing to do this asap to take this stress off of her as I know we have lived with this kind of stress for years. I am so afraid that if I let her go that she will never come back. I am afraid that if I don't push for C now that she will not want to go in the future. I am afraid that if I go dark that she will enjoy the freedom and not want to come back. I wonder if I could get her to go to C now that she might share more of her feelings so I know more of what I need to work on. It's a tough decision. These are my feelings. I do not share this with her. I do hear what you are saying too that this might not be the right time for C.

I was NC with her for most of February. I was strong and kept my position on issues with her. I don't know if it had any effect on her. She did begin to do some things my way (no more emails, face to face meetings, began phone calls again) but the NC didn't seem to have any improvement on the M. When I spoke to my DB coach, I told her that my concern for NC was that my W would just grow further apart from the M. My DB coach said at some point that I would have to test the waters. I'm guessing that now is not the right time?

That's the question I keep struggling with...when is the right time to test the waters with her? 3 more months, 6 months, longer? I have been forced to learn patience for what I have had to endure from my company when it went out of business and all that came with that process. I can be patient with my W too. Even when I dealt with the problems of my company I never had any fear. This sitch with my W has made me fearful, I'm not used to it.

I do love my W enough to let her go. Wow, that was a hard thing to say. Let her go... I would love to think letting her go would bring her back. I read TBL's sitch and his experience with RV. His W pretty much told him that she was done. TBL was able to get his W to RV and things seem to have improved for him. What a wonderful thing for him, I'm very happy for him. This makes me wonder though, if RV (even if I can get my W to go in the future) could help us too? So many "what ifs". I admit it, yes, I am trying to get my W to C to try to save this M. I still cannot see any serious issues that should lead our M to D. I think if we could find the right C, and we both truly worked on ourselves, that we could have a lifelong happy M. I read the "Why I Must Change" section and it makes good sense. I told my W that I am working on making the necessary changes and even admitted that I'm not there yet. Told her that I know actions and not words, is what I need to do. She didn't make any comments when I said this to her, she just listened so i don't know if any of it registered with her? I wonder if she really is looking for change? Knowing how my W acted in some of our discussions when we were together, her silence during a conversation usually meant she was thinking about what I was saying. Who knows now?

When I hear the way (her tone) my W tells me she wants a D and doesn't want to work to reconcile, I feel hopeless. That's why I asked if some of this is WAW script or not. Seems like others here have heard the same thing and over time their sitch improves. For some reason I don't think I will be that lucky. I know my W was depressed that we didn't go out much for the past few years and do anything exciting. I wanted to do these things but financially we couldn't afford it during those couple of years after the company went under. It made me feel terrible that I couldn't do these things for my W. I felt like a failure which only contributed more to my depression.

Maynard, it is hard to do, to let go. Especially when I can see that this M can be saved. I'll give her the space she needs. I feel like giving her this space means the end of the M and gives no chance or reconciliation as my W seems like her mind is made up. I'm afarid she won't miss me.

Thanks again for listening. Sorry if I came off as weak in this post. I just needed to get some of this off my chest and share my feelings. I'll pull myself up and follow the advice given to me. Yes, it hurts. I am sooo in love with this woman.

[Ken62]

mza,

I know that it is hard to let her go. I'm trying to do the same thing right now. Our papers will be filed with the court next week and will be official in three months and I also don't have a lot of hope for our M but I'm not going to stop Going Dark and GAL. I am going to make myself the best person I can be and if my W sees that and has doubts, then great but if she doesn't, then it is her loss. Someone else will get a great me and it must not have been meant to be wth my W. After 24 years I also love her dearly and think that the M could be saved but she has NO desire to do this so I have to let go. Listen to Sandi and Steve and Maynard and try to focus on YOU! These people know what they are talking about and have wisdom way beyond mine. I know how hard it is to not talk about your R with your wife and how MC could fix it but she doesn't want it to be fixed right now and maybe she never will. SHE has to come to her own conclusions and nothing you say to her will change this. There is nothing I would like more than the chance to have a one or two day intensive with Michele with my W and I but I doubt that it will happen and I wont even push for it or mention it to my W.

I know everything you are going through but all you can do is work on yourself and make yourself the best most attractive person you can be and you will feel better about yourself and you will have confidence in yourself and who knows how that confidence will be perceived by your W but it shouldn't matter how she feels because it is about how YOU feel.

Best of luck,

Ken

[mza8]

Thanks Ken. Sometimes I feel like my W has a heart and sometimes not. For example today she emails me to talk about the house and a few other things we had discussed last time we talked. She had talked about removing me from her health insurance. She offered to keep me on it I paid my half. In another conversation she tells me she never said she would extend it beyond this month. I told her that I'm trying to be nice through this process and that's what she wants but she isn't being nice in return. I do not have access to health insurance right now if she takes me off of her plan. In her email today she tells me that she is taking me off at the end of the month. Unbelievable. Then she goes on to tell me some things she wants. Is she kidding me? She sounded more business like in her email today then when we spoke in person this past weekend. Sounds like she talked to someone on her end in the past day or two and she is back to being all business. The email wasn't all bad. She did just talk about the items we need to discuss, so I'm ok with that, no problem. I guess I'm just upset about the health insurance thing. We are still on the same car insurance and I offered to keep her on even if I buy the car from her. This way she can save some money.

This makes it difficult for me to try to do the right thing when she clearly is not. She still has dillusional thoughts that she isn't responsible for some of the joint bills. I honestly don't think that I can make any progress with her until this garbage is behind us and taken care of with the house, car and financials. I want to get this behind us but she sure is testing my patience but not working with me on some things. Maybe her and I both feel as though the other is cooperating. I don't know?

Ken, I wish you good luck to in your sitch. You sound strong and determined to continue to try to save your M. Good for you! That's a great positive attitude. I feel like I'm there too at times but other times I feel drained by all of this. I'll keep looking in on your sitch. I hope and pray for you and your sitch.

[Ken62]

mza8,

You never know which personality you are going to get from contact to contact. Last Wednesday my W was telling me what a rotten day she had and how she was finally thinking about getting IC and she initiated all the physical contact (2 hugs) and I was feeling really good. Then Friday morning she comes to the mediators to sign the papers and has an agenda that she wants more money for the furniture in the house and possibly for her new car. I basically tell her no and we go back and forth and it doesn't go well at all. I am able to give her a big fat check and get her credit cards from her and we are now financially independent! It just shows how you have to be prepared for anyting but the bottom line is to Act As If all the time so that hopefully you are NOT caught off guard.

I know that I sound strong in these posting, but believe me, IT IS HARD. Saying it is one thing, doing it is a whole different thing.

Thanks for the support and I hope and pray for you as well!

Ken

[mza8]

You never know which personality you are going to get from contact to contact

Boy, isn't that the truth. When I meet with my W, alone, I feel like I can bring out the W I married. It seems like when she goes back around some of her family or friends, she changes. Her sister, who my W is living with now, called my W twice while my W and I met this past Sunday. I don't think her sister is a bad influence but I'm not sure how much she helps the sitch. Sometimes I think it would be best if my W would get her own apartment so she would move out of her sister's house. I think it might do my W good to be alone for a while without any influence from anyone.

I know that I sound strong in these posting, but believe me, IT IS HARD. Saying it is one thing, doing it is a whole different thing.

Well, like they say, fake it until you make it, right? All we can do is try to stay strong and continue to work to save our marriages.

My wife and I talked for a half hour by phone today. We talked about house, etc. It was a very friendly conversation. No R talk at all. We agreed on most everything we talked about today. I agreed to to do a lot of what she wanted. She complimented me on some of the things I have done with house and efforts I have made making calls to take care of everything. I was surprised that she felt comfortable to give me this sincere compliment.

My W seems much more comforable talking with me on the phone. Very relaxed. The conversation seemed like we were our old selves again. It was nice. I kept the conversation on the subjects we needed to discuss. At the end of the conversation I did talk to her about a few non related things, small talk about what's new in the news type of thing. I had read on Mort Fertel's website that it's good to try to talk for at least 60 seconds to your spouse about something that is not related to your sitch, make small talk. It went well for me today. My W actually participated in the small talk part of the conversation. I ended the conversation and said I had to go and we said we will talk again this week. I was surprised that she didn't try to get off of the phone first. In some past conversations or meetings she would want to end the conversation. Not so today.

I'll continue trying to keep things friendly when we do speak, otherwise I need to back off and give her space.

[marriedCrazy]

You'll be amazed at how much phone calls like that crack the ice with the WAW.

[mza8]

You'll be amazed at how much phone calls like that crack the ice with the WAW.

I sure hope so. We talked again by phone today about none R things. Another friendly conversation, short and sweet. I think I'm doing ok. Continue to keep things friendly, no stress, no R talk, finish the conversation with small talk. Hopefully I'm at least not pushing her away any longer.

Met with my new C today for the second time. This C is VERY good. Extremely pro marriage. This C really seems to understand my W and what she going through right now. This helps me to continue to try to see things through her eyes. This is definitely the C I would like for my W and I to go to together when the time is right. Gives me some relief to feel comfortable that I seem to have found the right C.

This C recommended watching the movie "Fireproof". Anyone watch it? Good? Bad? This C said it would be good to watch and could be helpful for me. C also suggested I read the book, "Love Dare" after I watch the movie. Off to the movie store and then to the book store I go...

All in all, a good day.

[Ken62]

mza8,

I mentioned both of these in my sitch but my W could not get into the book because she had already checked out and I believe that sandi2 says that it is VERY pursuing so I don't know if it will help you. You can watch the movie and read the book but I'm not sure if your W will like either of them.

Hope this helps a little,

Ken

[mza8]

Oh, I didn't mean to sound like I would give them to my W. The movie and the book would just be for me right now. Definitely wouldn't give them to my W. Yes, that would be very pursuing.

Thamks,
mza8