First, I think its a sweeping and negative statement of Lotus to suggest most people on this forum are headed for divorce... MWD woudl NEVER endorse such a negative and hopeless comment.. IGNORE IT...
You can definitely save this
Lotus is on a good line of thought here when she works to clarify pursuit.
I don't agree with her interpretation, so I am going to offer a different one...
I am going to offer the one from MWD's BOOK :
Stop doing anything that your spouse might look at as pursuing behaviour.
Here are some examples of behaviour that I would consider pursuing :
Frequent Phone calls Encouraging to talk about the future Begging your spouse to reconsider Soliciting help from family members Pointing out all the good in your marriage Writing letters Following your mate around the house Asking for reassurances Buying gifts/flowers Trying to schedule dates together Spying on your spouse
In addition, it is essential that you stop saying I love you. I know this will be hard, but remember what I told you. Each time you say I love you, you remind your spouse that the feelings of love aren't reciprocal at the moment. My guess is that every time you say I love you, your spouse say's I know or remains silent. Not exactly reassuring is it?
You do at least HALF of these... No I am not FEARFUL of pursuit like Lotus suggests, but I can see where I believe you are driving your spouse AWAY rather than closer.
Your wife has told you that she feels you are too controlling... right? Well, guess what PURSUIT IS? It's an attempt to control your marriage...
Now, I am not telling you to not try to control it. That would mean to allow it to go out of control. But I will warn you that if you do something in an attempt to control your marriage that she finds offensive it will drive her further away.
So, yes, control your marriage, but do NOT do anythign that she will consider controlling. This is pretty much right out of MWD above. MWD says to avoid doing anything that yoru SPOUSE might perceive as pursuit (or controlling).
I think most of the things you do are perceived as controlling.
I DO disagree with MWD here and I am more in line with Harley and Tuppy (who are both practicing marriage counsellors both published as well) that if there is an affair going ON... and there IS in your household, you need to protect your wife from that.
This WILL be perceived as controlling, but if you don't act it will possibly mean the end of your marriage.
Some counsellors such as Harley and Tuppy, whom I am advocating here DO draw the line when there is a marital predator involved. Protect your wife from the predator, but at the same time do everything you can to aviod appearing as if you are controlling your wife.
This is why I suggested that you contact OM and OMW. THAT is going around your wife and not hassling her. I think this is the best compromise there.
Lotus, I haven't read anythign in OIN's posts to suggest there is a forgiveness issue here. I also havent' read anything so suggest that the affair is OVER.. I don't know where you are getting this stuff...
His wife is still pursuing this guy, and he's doing everythign he can to save his marriage... How on earth is that being unforgiving?
OIN the only problem I am seeing here is the pursuit. I do NOT advocate you inviting your wife out on dates... and discussing the wedding IS a DATE being planned. I woudl just tell her what you plan on doing and leave it open... if she wants to go, she just has to tell you. If she doens't want to go, then she doesnt go.. YOu don't CONTROL or PURSUE that in any way.
I had to post this b/c it is bothering me. My W just left 4 work and she aseemed very frustrated. Usually I would make her breakfast and pack her a lunch. This morning I just remained in bed and let her do everything for herself as a result she ran a little late and got upset in the process.
I understand I don't wasn't to pursue her and push her away at the same time I don't want to be so detached where she feels like I given up and push her away even more so.
Is there ever a case where "detached loving" is not necessarily the best course of action. How can sitting back and letting her do everything for herself improve our situation? All I can think is it will help her see that she CAN do WITHOUT me and bring her closer to leaving quicker.
Your wife needs to learn to be accountable for herself too... If you do everything she just sits around dependent on you.. under your CONTROL
You leaving her to make her own lunch gives HER control of her own day...
NOW, what I am gonig to suggest is that you leave her to do thsi while you do something PRODUCTIVE.. do NOT sit around and play video games while she's making her lunch...
Clean the house or wash dishes or something.
If after a few days she appears frustrated, make the lunch for her. Just casually tell her its there if she wants to take it... do NOT hand it to her with a smile and say I love you ... THAT is forcing your marriage on her... do NOT do that. I think after her doing it for a few days she may realize you ARE helping her in that way and its not too bad.. but ya, I would do what you did today by cutting back on the help... she MAY find help controlling in some caeses.
OIN, you need to understand that a big part of MWD's approach is EXPERIMENT.. MWD has no idea how the response will come out.. she reccomends you TRY soemthing , watch for results, and if it sint' working then try something else... but Ya, I would let her make her own lunch for a few days and see hwo that goes...
If she doesn't want to e controlled, you need to find out where the boundary is... so, let her control her own lunch for a few days .. if it looks like she would accept the help, then make the lunch and leave it to her to use it or not.
I also wanted to add for the 7 weeks this has gone on my wife would not once consider what I had to say she did not want to hear my side of anything bottom line was her mind is made up and that is it. And then surprisingly she tells me she wants to listen and hear how I feel and she sounded very sincere and I responded with silence missing my opportunity to getting feelings across to her. How is not talking going to help our R. She has not brought it back up so did I miss my window or opportunity?
If your wife wants to have a constructive talk, you listen to her. If she starts talking about divorce and separation... leave the room.
You can't win that one. IF you do anything other than support her idea, she will accuse you of controlling her.. if you DO support her suggestions tehn you are moving closer to divorce, you can't WIN that...
If she watns to just tell yo she's sad adn confused, certainly hear that.
What you need to tell her is that you made a commitment, you have NOT done well at keeping it, but you are willing to do anything you can to be a bettr husband. Tell her you need to learn HOW... and that you ARE going to FT to learn how to be a better H for her. Don't tell her you love her or anything like that (again right out of MWD's book). Just tell her what you are donig to remedy the situation and that's it. Tell her things will get better as you learn to be better.
I understand I don't wasn't to pursue her and push her away at the same time I don't want to be so detached where she feels like I given up and push her away even more so.
Is there ever a case where "detached loving" is not necessarily the best course of action. How can sitting back and letting her do everything for herself improve our situation?
You'll have to take that up with Michele Weiner-Davis, O.I.N. It is her concepts we are preaching, and in which we believe really work.
I know it's all very counter-intuitive, but please give them a chance.
My Wife had called me on her lunch break to ask "were you talking to anyone last night" not with anything to hide I said "yes" and she said we can talk when she gets home.
She got home before I did and when I got there she said "the reason why I asked that is because you insisted all these phone calls stopped but yet your doing the same thing" I explianed that it is not the same. I am ensuring that the OM and OMW wife understand the situation and for the better interest of our marriage as well as theirs all communication must end. She really had nothing to say in return but seems to think what she was doing was not wrong it was "just someone to talk to" and thinks I am doing the same thing. rather than make my point I just ended the conversation b/c I knew it would only escalate.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Tell your wife she is welcome to sit in on any of the calls you make to OMW.
Tell her you are not sharing any private details of your marital problems
Also tell her you are not hiding your contact from your wife or from OM... eveyrone knows you are making the call.
My guess is your calls are only five or ten mins long too arent' they...
Don't get defensive about her questions, its a FAIR quesiton to ask .. she wants to know what you're doin.. so tell her... no reason to hide anythign... you are protecting TWO marriages.. tha'ts something to e proud of, not something to hide or lie about.
Tell ehr she is mroe than welcome to sit in on the calls.
I would approach yoru wife about this matter if it was left unresolved... invite her to sit in on the next call... keep everythign above board here...
When you do this you are SHOWING your wife proper healthy social conduct...
You are setting an example when you make the calls above board and invite her.
Don't let her think you don't want to hear what she has to say... tell her she's mroe than welcome to sit in on the call... but that the OMW likely does NOT want to hear from her.. but she's welcoem to listen.
Make sure OMW knows your wife is in on the call.. no games
