How (and who) to expose if OP is not married

[jasper67]

good for you

[Allen A]

Thx Allen,

The impact on son has scared me enough to take this NC VERY seriously. Do I still need to send the NC email?

I was thinking that he will know that his "joking" about being on a date would be the reason that I don't want to talk to him. I dunno...the NC email could be beneficial or just make it more of a game to him.

BTW...to address what you wrote above,
husband has said that he manipulates everything and everyone. That he manipulates OW (the one he has a child with) and introduces a third party (not sure about his one...apparently another OW) to neutralize the situation. I wrote about this in one of my earlier posts under newcomers...I will post in later. Husband says that he tells people what he knows they want to hear in order to play the game.

OK, there you have it. He has admitted he will lie whenever he likes to. He has the deluded idea that people only want to hear what HE CHOOSES to tell them. He has convinced himself that his LIES are some sort of COURTESY he offers to people. He he "tells people what he knows they want to hear" but he never considers what they NEED to hear. SOmetimes people need to hear the truth even if they don't feel or want to hear it. Your H finds this idea silly apparently.

If he were a medical doctor and his patient tested positive for cancer, would he just tell them they have a cold and send them home?

Your husband lies to make HIS life comfortable, it has nothign to do with telling others what THEY want to hear... he's telling them what HE wants them to hear to minimize HIS discomfort with the exchange... its classic sociopathy...

I may WANT to hear that my wife never slept with another man. But i NEED to hear where my marriage is at... painful or no...

Your husband cannot be trusted right now. Sorry, but he's at least been honest enough to admit he will not BE honest with you.

He controls people way too much. Social exchange is not a GAME you try to WIN at... if he wants to negotiate with a salesman over something that's a fine way to play it, but you don't do that to your wife, and if he IS doing that to his wife, he will do it to his children too. Protection phase for you and your son is my advice.

I would write the letter. If you don't tell him you don't want to hear from him he will think you are playing with him. I would write the letter for YOU and your PARENTS so you and they at least can see you are serious. The letter isn't just for him, its for you and your support system to know you mean business.

You need to work with your parents right now to ensure you keep in protection phase and don't break that.

Make sure your parents are in the loop on your plans.

I am not telling you to give up on him, I am telling you to tell him what the boundaries are and that you won't accept him back into your life until those are met. That's protection phase in a nutshell.

The boundaries are that he needs to

1. Start seeing someone about his sociopathy.
2. End ALL affairs ongoing
3. Commit to No Contact with OW - child or otherwise, he can arrange a supervised visit if thsi really matters to him
4. Attend family thereapy

That is a lot of work on his plate right there...

You put that in a letter, you email him the letter, you put your parents in the loop. The lettr is for him, you and your parents... you put that sucker in writing and send it, its giong to have a LOT more impact on YOU as well as him... and your parents will see that you are growing up and putting yoruself and your son first.

You change your cell number... you change your email account, you change all your contact info.

You give your H your father's email and tell him anything he has to say goes there.

And he's out until he starts to do some work on his part. Sincere work.

[Allen A]

Oh BTW,

husband text me twice late last night asking if I was sleep or was I up. I ignored both. I am not some woman on the side that you can tell you were out on a date and then text me after your so called date. PULLLEASE!!!

He will try this again and again, you need to change your cell number.

You are a mother and an adult and he needs to start respecting that... the ONLY way in my opinion that will start is with protection phase in place.

[Allen A]

This is my post from January 19, 2010 under newcomers:

...

...

...

So, that leaves me in a weird place. Usually people on this site try to bust up the affair but I have no affair to bust up because he has come clean (for the most part) about everything.

Simply admitting to cheating does not end the affair.. it can if there is remose, but I don't believe there is any here.

This is a bit of a semantic issue, but I would not refer to admitting an affair as "coming clean"... to my mind he isnt' "clean" until the affair is OVER and CLOSED and he is NOT in CONTACT anymore.

Many affairs on this forum are OPEN in the sense that both spouses know the affair is happening, but the WS refuses to END the affair.

Getting clean in terms of an addiction means FREEING oneself of that addiction... this is in most cases the aim of this forum's members...

Freeding the addiction from the marriage and then making a sincere effort to rebuild.

[4luv]

I just got my from my first appointment with FT and I made another appointment with him.

He had a lot of the books that are mentioned on this board in his office including Not Just Friends and he had divorce busting. He said that he is promarriage because many people don't really realize the impact and consequences of divorce until it is too late. I asked him the questions that I had including:

1. What does he do when one the cheating spouse won't even acknowledge the affair
2. What does he do when the cheating spouse (CS) won't agree to NC even if there is a child involved.

He answered question #1 saying that a couple has to come to a consensus of what has occurred. He said without this consensus work on the marriage CANNOT actually happen. If both spouses don't agree with the event that establishes the first mutual agreement (I am not explaining this all the way but you get the gist).

QUestion #2...He said that if the CS won't agree to NC then that says alot about the commitment to reconcile. He said trust can be rebuilt with the CS not cutting off all contact but it is an uphill battle. He said he has seen cases where the OW/OM might be the next door neighbor or a coworker or even a SIL and it makes complete NC difficult. He recommends that the CS quit their job, move, etc but if it is not possible he can work with the couple but odds are against them fully recovering and building trust. HE said in the case of having a child involved he recommends an intermediary and if that is not possible he went as drastic as saying you would have to cut out contact with the child at a young age until the child gets old enough to contact the child directly without involvement of other parent. (I feel that this is too drastic and punishes the child unfairly).

BTW, husband has called me a total of 10 times so far. He doesn't take well to NC. I did schedule another appt with this FT.

[jasper67]

Sounds pretty good- are these sessions just for you or is H to attend?

[4luv]

Husband is suppose to attend but not this first session. I wanted to meet with the FT first to check him out before sending husband. Husband asked me to find a FT in my area and said he would make the 6 hour drive. he said that he wanted to get help for himself so I suggested he talk to a FT. I am following Allen's advice of not pressuring him to go. I gave him the next appointment date and time but that is it. I will not remind him when the appointment comes up. The rest is his responsibility if he wants to go. I might text him the phone number of the therapists later on today but I don't want to seem to eager. Actually, I am not going to text husband...I will wait to give his info until husband ASK me to the contact info.

I am going to go the appointment with or without him however.

[Allen A]

I just got my from my first appointment with FT and I made another appointment with him.

Good call, I like what I have seen so far... keep agoing, its educational... its either that or going to church and trying to work via metaphor

He had a lot of the books that are mentioned on this board in his office including Not Just Friends and he had divorce busting. He said that he is promarriage because many people don't really realize the impact and consequences of divorce until it is too late. I asked him the questions that I had including:

These are all excellent signs. This is all perfect stuff here to see when you walk in and start a talk.

1. What does he do when one the cheating spouse won't even acknowledge the affair
2. What does he do when the cheating spouse (CS) won't agree to NC even if there is a child involved.

These again are excellent questions. Thank you both for asking them and for posting his responses.

He answered question #1 saying that a couple has to come to a consensus of what has occurred. He said without this consensus work on the marriage CANNOT actually happen. If both spouses don't agree with the event that establishes the first mutual agreement (I am not explaining this all the way but you get the gist).

Yup, that's pretty much my thinking too...

QUestion #2...He said that if the CS won't agree to NC then that says alot about the commitment to reconcile. He said trust can be rebuilt with the CS not cutting off all contact but it is an uphill battle. He said he has seen cases where the OW/OM might be the next door neighbor or a coworker or even a SIL and it makes complete NC difficult. He recommends that the CS quit their job, move, etc but if it is not possible he can work with the couple but odds are against them fully recovering and building trust. HE said in the case of having a child involved he recommends an intermediary and if that is not possible he went as drastic as saying you would have to cut out contact with the child at a young age until the child gets old enough to contact the child directly without involvement of other parent. (I feel that this is too drastic and punishes the child unfairly).

Nothing is fair about the situation... why shoudl teh child grow up with a part tiem father in teh first place? It all sucks.

I honeslty don't understnad why an intermediary can't work, I have been advocating them here for a long time... I think mb28 found them to work well, I think she tried that a few times and didn't have any problem with it.

His point of a trust is a very important one, that part must be worked on before any of the fluffy stuff really can be received properly... no woman or man who has been betrayed is going to recieve any postiive marital affirmations if they don't trust their spouse.

BTW, husband has called me a total of 10 times so far. He doesn't take well to NC. I did schedule another appt with this FT.

I didn't expect he would. I take it you sent the email?

I STRONGLY reccomend you change your cell nubmer.. his constant calling is giong to eat away at you and is not reinforcing protection phase.. the PP is supposed to protect you from the unheahtly reminders of affairs and unhealthy lifestyles, if your phone is ringing ten times a day to remind yo ofthat, you aren't protecting yourself very well.

I DO understand for the first few days you want to monitor his response and counting the phone calls is a safe way to do that..

But it CAN become a probelm if you keep the phone on and watching for his calls...

Eventually he will one day NOT call and you will start to worry... you keep your self attached to his unhealthy life through the phone rining.. I reccomend turning it off if you can.

All good stuff to see though, I like this FT.

[Allen A]

I think mb28 uses her phone in the same way...

If the phone is ringign then you get a high from it, it makes you feel loved and like yoru marriage has hope.. it can get VERY addictiev and is NOT healthy...

You end up invsting YOUR emotional health and physical health into your phone ringing.. and basically hand your health over to your spouse to control

If he wants you to feel good, he calls, if he wants you to feel bad, he doens't....

The phone is a dangerous thing here.. it CAN become a fixation.

I reccomend you get a NEW number.

[4luv]

Allen,

I did not sent the NC email. To be honest I am a little hesitant. I completely get what you are saying that the letter is as much for me to stick to NC as well as for husband but I wasn't sure that was the right way to go being that husband is suppose to come to the next therapy session. Also I will have to see husband in a few weeks for our son's bday. I didn't want to send the letter and then not have any wiggle room for those interactions with husband. I haven't been staying near my phone and have been keeping both of my cell phones in the car today while I am in the house. I will not go down that path with husband again. I moved away physically to get away from his unhealthy ways and now I am moving away emotionally. I know to not have NC, I just am unsure as to send a letter to husband to INFORM him of my wishes as well.