I really want her to come, but I dont want to come across as pursuing or anything like that. I want to make her feel that I am letting go.
You really want her to come. and yet... You want to make her feel that you are letting go.
Think about that.
You have incongruent thoughts swirling around in your head.
I'm sure your body language is just as confusing to her as well.
Go on the trip without her, tell the kids that it will be ok, you want to make her feel like you're "letting go", you actually have to start letting go, when your actions are congruent with your thoughts, then it's authentic, that's when it's believable because it's real.
Asking her to come on a trip and paying for her will be pursuing.
I know, it feels weird, it's counter intuitive but so far what you've been doing that you think doesn't feel as weird to you hasn't been working that great.
Don't be an a$$hole or a prick, just go on the trip without her.
Or better yet...
Leave the kids with her, go on the trip by yourself and have a real vacation, it's ok, you're allowed, you can be a little selfish sometimes without coming across as an a$$.
I guess for the past 2 weeks, I have tried the detach method. I thought I was doing good but as usual when you dont see any change in the W behaviour and more of the same I guess you get desperate. Saturday night I know I blew it again.. Talked R, tried to get a hug etc, and it felt like I was hugging a penguin which just came out of the cold water... Sooo.. since then, back to detach mode.
You TRIED. Nice. Trying implies failure. Don't try. Do or Do NOT, there is no trying (paraphrasing yoda but you get the idea because it's true)
You were doing good but you didn't see a change in your wife's behavior....
Read that part again. You are doing this to get a change in your wife's behavior. How successful is any of this going to be when you're only doing it to get a change in her.
Why not detach for YOU? Get rid of the needy, insecure, wussy, unattractive traits and characteristics you're currently displaying.
Look this is all about attraction, you've killed your wife's attraction for you and that sucks because that is something hard to build back up for people that have been together forever. Here's another point that sucks, it's easy for new people in our lives to build attraction with us, they have no history with us, no bad memories that linger, etc.
No more R talks, no more asking for hugs.
You said it yourself, it felt like you were hugging a cold penguin, mmmmm.... that's sexy fun, love it!
I suggest 2 trips for you: 1 with the kids, choose a destination that is more kid oriented, Cancun wouldn't be my first pick for family vacations. 1 trip just for you, yeah just you, go on a singles vacation and relax and enjoy yourself: you sound like you've always been there for your family both your kids and your wife and you've never been appreciated for what you've done so what do you do, you react out of reflex and try to do even more to work hard for that appreciation and love, let me tell you something, that never works.
They will never notice harder work, more dedication and involvement, if you're always there, it's more of the same and that doesn't register as something that stands out in the brain.
Remove yourself from the situation, do less, that will stick out.
robx.. You say it like it is.. Its also about growing the pair of " nuts" that are needed. It goes against my grain.. Its not who I am, but I realize what your saying.. I need to be counter-intuitive if I am going to have a chance at this.
ROBX, if you in my shoes, would you go on the trip with her knowing that the kids would want thier mother to be there as well? I dont know how you post someelse's comment.. so I copied and pasted.
Originally Posted By: cesco
You see, we get along great for the most part. We live together, sleep in same bed, have dinner together as a family almost every night, but there is that void!...
ROBX reply: Yes we're like FRIENDS, the kind of FRIENDS where a woman can be free to be friendly to you without having to worry about any romantic implications or sexual attraction or anything like that ;-)
You're being a great FRIEND.
MY reply: I dont ask her to sleep in our bed, she just goes there. Do I tell her, see ya, sleep on the couch its not what you want, so beat it? in a nice way of course...
Whats your thoughts ?
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
ROBX, I posted before I read your comments above..
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
2 trips.. YES>>>>>.. Love the idea. ROBX and MF, thanks for the confidence booster. Its so draining and really takes its toll out on you.
I will say that the last couple of days has been easier. For some reason I am getting angry with this. I keep my emotions to myself because I am trying to walk around cheerfully.
one of my problems is the work from home. My job is so demanding that my office is in my home and the home computer is in the same room. I am always here.....the phrase less is more I guess would work..
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
Now let's work on your grammar... LoL (Why are men so bad?!)
OK, also, I relate to the working from home, because I do. Can I offer some advice? You, obviously, are a two income family. Yours, is not less than hers, no matter the income (which I haven't a clue), SO why are you doing all of the running of the kids to and from school, etc...? I've only recently started force feeding some kid tasks to H, and it's helping in all kinds of ways!
And, you want to tell her to beat it, in a nice way? Kind of contradictory!!!
If you two are not ready for your kids to share in your "issues," and your W is NOT going on the trip, why not just let them think she can't get away right now? I'm not telling you to lie to your kids, but they don't need to know everything. Then CLAIM that trip and enjoy!
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
robx.. You say it like it is.. Its also about growing the pair of " nuts" that are needed. It goes against my grain.. Its not who I am, but I realize what your saying.. I need to be counter-intuitive if I am going to have a chance at this.
ROBX, if you in my shoes, would you go on the trip with her knowing that the kids would want thier mother to be there as well? I dont know how you post someelse's comment.. so I copied and pasted.
Originally Posted By: cesco
You see, we get along great for the most part. We live together, sleep in same bed, have dinner together as a family almost every night, but there is that void!...
ROBX reply: Yes we're like FRIENDS, the kind of FRIENDS where a woman can be free to be friendly to you without having to worry about any romantic implications or sexual attraction or anything like that ;-)
You're being a great FRIEND.
MY reply: I dont ask her to sleep in our bed, she just goes there. Do I tell her, see ya, sleep on the couch its not what you want, so beat it? in a nice way of course...
Whats your thoughts ?
It goes against your grain?! Its not who you are? Bull$hit. It is who you are but you've been trained and fed crap all your life that tells you being overly nice and dishonest about things when it comes to your wife is what will get you where you need to be and obviously that hasn't worked and I'll make a blanket statement (and yes it's a generalization) that it hasn't worked for alot of men on this forum - don't believe me, spend some time reading all the LBH's with WAW's and how they act, all nicey nicey, a$$ kissing, etc.
Listen.... Women are women (for the most part) Men are men (for the most part) Women like Men and Men like Women (for the most part)
When Men act more like Women than being more like Men, it screws up attraction and alot of relationships.
You're super nice (it sounds like it), you don't complain much, you do alot for your wife & family, go overboard I might say, supplicate her, buy her gifts, tolerate her crap treatment of you and you've done it for years. I would venture a guess that when you both started seeing each other, you were more masculine and she was more feminine but as the years progressed, those raisins you call balls (I'm being funny, relax) shrunk a bit, you became more feminine, more of a caregiver, homemaker, less aggressive, less assertive, put up with crap and don't rock the boat as much while your wife... she became more assertive, aggressive, more masculine, less feminine, less affectionate, less caring, less loving, etc.
Fast forward to today and your situation.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Stop saying that being a MAN isn't who you are, damn straight it's who you are, you've just been trained over many years to be less of a man. Keep it up, you're currently training your son for the same position.
I'm not sexist, I love women, I have alot of testosterone in me and I'm a huge fan of women.
But now I'm also a huge fan of ME and ME being a MAN.
Look when you finally get it, it will be like someone finally turning on the light in that dark basement your brain lives in and you'll say to yourself "WOW I can finally see!"
You won't be living off assumptions and hoping things turn out ok.
You'll be a man that leads the direction your life takes, someone who is confident, calm, cool, attractive, strong and in control of himself and not really worried what other people do, you can't control the actions of others but you can sure as hell control your actions.
Controlling people is weak, let go of that. Wanting to change the behavior of others by changing things you do is still manipulative and controlling.
How about you take a break from all that hard word and realize what it is to make you happy.
Forget about the wife and kids for the time being.
Aside from the happy marriage thoughts that fill your brain, what would make you CESCO happy? When is the last time you made you happy? Seriously. Think about it.
I wake up every morning with a smile (and all of you reading this, get your minds out of the gutter LOL!)
I'm genuinely happy, I'm a great person, a great dad, a great friend and a great man, I'm happy. Sometimes I just sit down and wonder to myself how a few years ago I felt so depressed, had so much anxiety and fear, allowed myself to be treated so poorly by my wife who still to this very day tries to convince me that she "didn't want to hurt me so much" and she "wants a better marriage" and she says that "we should do more things together and maybe go on a trip without the kids". This is the same lady a couple years back was telling me she never loved me, ILYBINILWY, etc. Now I'm the one in control of where my relationship goes and I'm still not convinced that this is what I want, I'm not guarded, I just don't believe my wife can maintain the changes she made, it's going to take alot longer for me to make that decision. As it stands we go to counselling (because she asks me to go with her), she pays for the counselling (we separated and living in separate homes), she asks to come over every single day when it's my week with the kids and she still hangs out till 10 or 11pm after the kids go to bed at 8pm just to talk and hang out - she will bring coffee over or some treats. She's making what appears to be a genuine effort and she's pursuing me and apparently based on the many billions of posts by Gucci on these forums, this is where you want your once WAW who now appears to be the LBS, she apparently feels better pursuing me, it never worked when I pursued her, she's pursuing something of value, something she took for granted previously and NO SEX yet as per Gucci (I'm seriously going to bust a nut pretty soon because the lady's body language and her seductive powers are decent to put it mildly but here's the catch, I'm not refusing because I'm shy or can't perform, I'm refusing because I decide when I have sex and it's driving the lady wild - who knew?! I just tell her that it's not a good idea, I don't want to give her the wrong idea that if we have sex, that the relationship is fine again because that never worked previously), I've been listening, I spent alot of time doing my own thing when I was these forums to begin with, I was quasi successful with somethings, failed horribly with others but now I have to trust that I believed to be the right thing to do previously wasn't the right thing.
Will this happen in every situation? NO. There are no guarantees in life.
But the advice I offer you is this, detach and make yourself happy. Stop trying to impress her (super wrong thing to do, don't ever do it), don't buy gifts, don't attempt to communicate and discuss how things should be logically. Move in the opposite direction, allow some space between you, don't be a prick or an a$$hole, you can be a good guy who is nice, just don't be a "nice guy", experience social interactions with other women, no one is saying you have to get laid every night with a different woman - that would be dumb.
Stop working so damn hard to fix a marriage, it never works.
Start working hard on making YOU happy, find you again.
