setting boundaries when not clear if A is over

[Piano]

Starting a new thread because my sitch has changed a little.
My H's PA has physically ended and will most definately remain that way (due to the fact she lives on the other side of the world). But it's hard to say if the emotional side of the affair has ended (he was infatuated with her for at least 5 months before it started. The PA itself only last 6 weeks).

We have been seperated since Xmas. In that time I have only asked a few times about the status of the affair. One month ago he said 'it's not over' (maybe to bait me) and then a week ago 'there is no relationship' (to appease me?). Not terribly, terribly clear to me what's going on.

The thing is, I feel I cannot be 'friends' or work on co-parenting while he is not transparent with me. Last week we had one not so good co-parenting counseling session - he's still keen to keep going though. Me not so much - too upsetting. Baby born in 2 months time.

Thanks for any advice on a good way of expressing something like following in an email to him : "While you remain unclear to me if you are building a life with someone else, it's difficult to me to accept the idea of trying to remain friends or to continue co-parenting counseling. Contact with you is painful for me and I want to protect myself and our baby. I need to be able to trust you & you are not being transparent with me today. Until you are, I'd prefer no contact".

I think it's about setting boundaries that work for me, without being too threatening, but which protect me and my unborn first child from more upsets.

Would appreciate any advice....

[newmama]

Hi again- I am unclear about something.

Did he say he wants to reconcile with you?

Because, sorry, if he doesn't, then I don't think he has to be transparent with you. But I DO UNDERSTAND that you would not want contact with him while he is not clear about what he wants- you or the OW! Are there legal issues if you refuse co-parenting sessions or can you do whatever you want?

[Piano]

He says it's over and does not want to reconcile...

But I am doing my best to DB in the hope he changes his mind.

Either way, I don't think I am legally obliged to do co-parenting sessions. We've not gone down any legal path at all (yet - and hopefully not ever).

The boundary issue is important to me because I don't know how much I can accept. He wants to move interstate and then overseas eventually. It seemed to me if I at least knew if there was another person still involved or not , I could get my head around a least a part of it.

The idea for me today is about being able to trust this person enough to let him back into my life even if it's to coparent and not get back together. The bomb was dropped only recently and I am due soon - emtionally I am struggling with acceptance & combining that will allowing him into my life for baby's sake. If there was no baby, I wouldn't have to see him in co-parent counseling and I could go full-on NC.

[blownaway65]

I think it's about setting boundaries that work for me, without being too threatening, but which protect me and my unborn first child from more upsets.

This is SO right.


P at this point you really do have to look out for what's the best thing for YOU and your baby.

You will never know what's really going on in H's head, if the A is over emotionally or ongoing. You will go crazy trying to mind read where H is at with OW.

I'll say it again painful as it is, do what's right for YOU and baby.

[newmama]

So I am still struggling to understand something (sorry to be dense) IF YOU DON'T TRUST HIM, will you NOT co-parent with him?
In your country do you have the right to not involve him as a parent? Meaning (sounds bad) cut him out of your life and the baby's life, and then be free to find a new husband/father one day?

The reason why I ask this is because if you literally want no contact UNLESS he is willing to reconcile, then it will be easier to follow through on NC if he is not a part of your life or the baby's.

And WH and I never took co-parenting classes ahead of time. After S was born, he was waaaaay more attached to him than he expected to be but it didn't change his opinion of wanting to R.

I have read several cases where they did want to R after the baby came, though, which made me hopeful, but didn't turn out in my case. So it is a possibility though since I read that it happened to others.

Hope I didn't confuse you more!

And if you don't want to go overseas and move, then maybe legally (if that is an issue)you fight for full custody!

[newmama]

I want to reiterate that if you want to co-parent, then you still can (technically but it is not easy)regardless of whether he is with OW or not.

[Piano]

blownaway65, thankyou again for your advice. Sorry you need to keep telling me over and over what I need to hear most. I am taking it on - albeit slowly, as I work through acceptance of my sitch - but confident I am on the good path to self-protection. The turning point has been this week - I think because my H is interstate & somehow I feel relieved by that!

What keeps tripping me up though, and I don't mean to harp on, is that in my sitch (after having being cheated on and left by my H without any chance of R) there's an unborn baby thrown in to complicate matters!! It's this point of difference which really has me stumped.......

I hope you will stick around and keep offering your advice ... clearly I really need it.......

Newmama, also thankyou for sticking with this. I hope I can clarify some things in this post. I wish I could say I am not clear because of the pregancy hormones and fatigue etc, but that would be disengenuous! I AM confused, and I can see it when I read myself. But let me try to respond to your points now....

Quick clarification of the main things: the bottom line is that my H does not want to reconcile with me and wants me to move on. I am due in two months. He says he wants to be a father, but is unclear about how much he can put in. Let's face it, he's interviewing for work in another state as it is and is likely to get that work soon. He has also made it clear he will go back to live in Europe (for life) at some stage (my guess, a matter of months/a few years).

I see my problem as this: how to DB with a WAH who does not want to R, is probably not going to be living in my city/country (sooner or later), with a baby on the way, and he keeps saying he wants to be a father.

I am trying to figure out a self protection strategy that involves contact only around finances or the baby. Why NC? Because, like many here, I think the break with H is important for my healing and sanity, and b/c I am hoping to 'shake my' H up in the long run. I want to work on the M down the track, if he changes his mind.

If there was NO BABY, I would go the NC, "Tough Love", road. Cut of all contact, so I can heal, and so he can realise what he is losing.

But there is a BABY. So what do I do? Just because I am about to be a mum does not mean I am no longer married to him, love him, or want to DB the marriage.

Where co-parenting is concerned, I think I can't start the process now, while I am trying to heal. It's too confusing to have to sit in a co-parenting therapy session with him and hear all his nonsense. The first time we did it (and the last) I got hurt and angry all over again hearing his (what I thought) irrational views on fatherhood & concerned it porvided an opp for him to tell me all over again how our M is over and to give up hope.

I walk away upset, and it takes my mind of caring for the baby... My focus returns to him, not me and the baby.

Why did I opt for the co-parenting in the first place? Well, I was hoping to be STRONG enough to be able to sit in the sessions, not talk about the R, and that out of that the co-parenting talk would 1. wake him up to the reality of this baby coming very soon (he's quite disconnected....! despite the 'talk') and 2. perhaps make him face his actions and see what he has done to our M and future, and perhaps - just perhaps - help him come to his 'senses' vis a vis our M.

As for our legal system, he has 50-50 parenting rights. Same as in the US, I'm guessing. So I can't refuse him access to the baby. But he is really vague about the input he wants to have...and said once that he wont challenge me on any custody claims I make (!!). Tell me, what sort of "father" actively looks for work interstate and says he's eventually heading back overseas for good, away from their baby??? Someone settling for not much of a relationship with his child, is what it sounds like to me. This is not someone promising to be a 'around the corner' co-parenter. It WONT be 50/50 caring role. Clearly, I am going to be doing most of, if not nearly all, the parenting by myself.

So why continue co-parenting classes?

The only reason I would even consider continuing the sessions would be in the hope that it will wake the guy up to his contradictions, as I've already said (sorry, I know I am guilty of repeating myself alot). I mean, this is the guy whose first statement in co-parenting counseling was "I love this child already, and I will be it's father".

Well, yes... technically he IS and will be the father, but where will he being the "PARENT" in that?

I just don't think I can sit through any more sessions with that inherant contradiciton driving me bananas!

As for the OW, you're right Newmama, he can co-parent while or if he is still in a relationship with the OW. But the reason I wanted to make some sort of boundary statement to him was, again, to shake him up and find out where he is 'at'. Plus, I suppose, having her there would add insult to injury. Though I know that's not a good place to think from.

I know that's not what we are supposed to do (be worried about what they are doing & who they are doing it with when they have seperated from us & said it no uncertain terms that our M is over) but I just can't get a handle on how to have contact with him around this co-parenting business.

I guess I could do what you have done, and restart the co-parenting therapy post-birth - that is, if he hasn't skipped town.

You know, as I type this, I'm starting to think maybe he doesn't want to co-parent, he just wants occassional access (flying in every couple of weekends to say hello to the baby, and fly out again). What a crappy way to be a "father", if you ask me!!

As for the issue of trust.. I don't know how to 'read' what has he done to me clearly yet, as I find it all really nuts and confusing. I'm getting there...but very slowly.

You'll be happy to know I have booked in with a DB coach, and I am seeing a L next week. Didn't want to see a L, but we still have shared bank accounts, assets, etc...and I think I now need clarity given that he is making moves to live interstate.

[newmama]

First of all, yes, you have a baby coming and OF COURSE you are scared and have been treated horribly, and this IS NOT FAIR! It isn't! It is horrible and very very difficult.

But I have to tell you that the odds of YOU DOING ANYTHING that will make your H go "I want to be with Piano!" in the next 2 months are not high.(based on what I have read-not just my own sitch) Please understand that I am NOT saying that you shouldn't hope or that he will never come back,absolutely I am not saying this! But that it is not likely to happen before the baby is born. Pretend it is not a possibility. But if you go NC, focus on getting through each day,and reading about how to take care of your baby in the first weeks and month, you will gather the strength you need to tackle this after the baby is born.

I know that's not what we are supposed to do (be worried about what they are doing & who they are doing it with when they have seperated from us & said it no uncertain terms that our M is over) but I just can't get a handle on how to have contact with him around this co-parenting business.

It's okay- we all do it- worrying about our spouse. But your GOAL is to NOT worry about him. Think of it as a GOAL. It is completely unrealistic to say "wake up tomorrow and never think of him again!" lol

I have been in your shoes, or at least a similar style!( my turn to repeat myself sorry!)

What I mean is my WH left when I was 7 months pregnant to be with OW. Realistically, I could not GAL at 7 mo pregnant! Come on!

So what I did was
1) talk to my dr. about how to go to sleep at night. Surprisingly, over the counter sleeping pills were considered safe or benadryl.
2) went to see an IC where I could talk all of this out; saw him weekly
3) went to work every day, put on make up and styled my hair 6 days per week
4) came home from work, and went directly on to online forums like this one, marriagebuilders.com and survivinginfidelity.com.
5) ate dinner and then went to bed. Repeat.

I had NC with WH aside from dr. appointments.
All of the above helped me until S was born. Then it was very very hard. I won't lie.

The whole time that I was alone in my house from 3/31 to 6/30, with a huge belly, aching feet, and a dark cloud over my head, I wished and longed to be taken care of. WH WANTED to take care of me....but live with OW and screw her every night. So I said NO WAY- I will be fine! But I wished I had parents to stay with- I just didn't want HIM to help! So stay with your parents, or at least don't resist the idea! I guess all you have to do is live alone for a couple of weeks in your state and you'll see what I mean! :-)

I guess I could do what you have done, and restart the co-parenting therapy post-birth - that is, if he hasn't skipped town.

We never went to a therapist- we found parenting plans online and chose one we agreed with.

You know, as I type this, I'm starting to think maybe he doesn't want to co-parent, he just wants occassional access (flying in every couple of weekends to say hello to the baby, and fly out again). What a crappy way to be a "father", if you ask me!!

YES IT IS.But you will have no idea until the baby is born. My WH fell in love at first sight with S (not me!)and went from agreeing to see him 3 days per week to 7 days per week! I just kept repeating to myself (this is best for our S. this is best for our S. Even though it was so hard to see him every day and know he was not there to see me- he had no interest still)

However, I was dead serious about filing for D if WH ended up being a deadbeat dad. I would have asked for full custody and then worked on taking care of S, improving myself, and started dating the following year! Heck, it would have been way less easier to detach without him around!

You'll be happy to know I have booked in with a DB coach, and I am seeing a L next week. Didn't want to see a L, but we still have shared bank accounts, assets, etc...and I think I now need clarity given that he is making moves to live interstate.

This is very very smart of you!!! It will totally help you have some sense of control even though you must accept one day (GOAL) that you have no control over your WH, ONLY YOUR ACTIONS. You can hope that you can INFLUENCE WH with your actions but it is up to him.

Ok, sorry for the long post! One last hopeful nugget: 11 months ago, I thought 100% we were going to divorce; started the paperwork, etc. But then as the months passed it never happened! Still don't know! So threatening D does not mean it will happen necessarily.

[newmama]

oops- I fell in love with S, too! I meant WH did not fall back in love with me when S was born!

[blownaway65]

P & NM,

I'm not exactly sure that carrying an unborn child makes the sitch any different than a couple with kids of any age still at home. Plain fact is WAS has left not just you, but a FAMILY - just that you can't see the little one yet. My W was so keen to leave she could just pack up and leave the 4 of us, not just me.

What you are both dealing with is a serious case of Cake Eating. H wants to have the good things about having a kid, the newborn smell, caring for someone so helpless, just the "gorgeousness" of a new baby, while still being able to just "opt out" whenever they want to to be with OW.

As for wanting to be a parent in a meaningful way but have no commitment, that's just a load of crap. They can't see straight thru the fog of the A.

P, you have to protect yourself and bub. Centerlink have a vast amount of resources dedicated to supporting families and especially new mothers in failing R's. It's their fastest growing area. Also make sure you get in contact with the Child Support Agency as soon as bub is born. They will take care of getting financial support for the new one from H (although it is harder if H is outside the country).

So to my stumbling block, what exactly is your definition of co-parenting (you too NM) ? Is is shared care of kids together ie 2 parents together under same roof or is it drop off/pick up.

If it's the first then make sure it's something you can deal with without going mental. Being together yet apart from H will just get your hopes up because of the proximity you will find yourselves in.

If it's the latter then I'd have reservations, especially with a first child, about a new father being responsible enough to have sole care of a newborn. Not that guys are bad dads, just it doesn't come as naturally to us, and then there's the feeding etc.