Yup, I am on side with your father about that one...

I had no idea about this behaviour at all...

There are signs of the sociopathy now

He got you to write is resume
He got you to take him into your parents home when they wouldnt' let him in
He gets you to pursue him even after cheating on you
He gets you to jump through hoop after hoop to save a marriage and calls you up to tell you he's "dating?"

This is blatant socipathy... this I mean he gets a fix from GETTING something out of people while giving nothing in return.. its something like an addiction... You can likely add a lot of others up too

Your father is not qualified to help H with that. There IS therapy for this and he CAN see someone, but you need to go into protection phase.

The thing is, mates very often treat their chidlren the way they treat their spouses... if they treat YOU well they will treat your CHILDREN well... and the other end of the spectrum is unfortunately true as well...

I honelsty think he doens't realise the damage he's doing... is a developmental probelm where a sociopath is unable to adequately empathize with the person tehy are hurting such that they can stop... they just don't GET that they are HURTING anyone ... Your F can explain this much better than i...

But I didn't notice much until you posted this phone call...

Ya, if he tries to get into "game" mode just HANG UP... he is ENJOYING your pursuit, he thinks its CUTE, it makes HIM feel better while YOU feel WORSE every exchange, that's NOT healthy for you... and it won't be healthy for your son.. he WILL play the same games with him

SON : Do you like my painting dad?
F : Do you want me to like it?
SON : I want you to like it...
F : Well, I dont' konw if I do... will you love me if I like it?
SON : Yes dad!
F : Ok, I will think about liking it then and I will let you know...
SON : Daaaaaaaaaaad... do you LIKE my PAINTING?

Can you see the game the father plays in this above?

THAT is sociopathy, he's getting a HIGH from watching his son BEG for validation, and his father dangles it over his head like a carrot he can't reach...

That phone call earlier reads VERY MUCH the same as this sample I wrote here...

Your H LOVES your pursuit, he gets OFF on it.

I think the BEST way to get to him is to SHUT him OUT ENTIRELY.. no exposure to son either...

UNTIL your H is in therapy for adequate treatment don't waste time pursuing him. And you do NOT have the time or the experience to get him into therapy... I would tell your F to give him an hour to see if H is willing to start therapy for sociopathy and he can't have ANY contact with you until he's made some headway there...

your F may be able to point him in a healthy direction, but I would'nt ask your F to put a lot fo time into guiding him... if your H is sociopathic he will just find a way to make a game out of the guidance your F offers him instead of working with it appreciatively.

I am NOT writing off your H. But he cannot be around your son while he continues the sociopathy... its NOT healthy for anyone to be around...

This is what sociopaths with a disorder do.. they show up in a community, use everyone, drive them away because they can't be around them without getting HURT, and the sociopath just moves to a new town and starts ALL over again

Now, your H isn't moving around like that, he Has friends and family right? SO he's NOT THAT ILL or he would have driven EVERYONE away... the fact that he CAN have a healthy relationship is a good sign.. assuming he DOES have a healthy relationship with someone... who he doens't play games with...

I suspect he plays the same games with OW and now has you two playing off each other, both pursuing him while he's with the other... its classic.. THAT is why he's doing it most likley.. Do you think his bouts of feeling miserable are just a ploy to get you to pursuue him? Do you think he's sincere? I suspect he may actually be sincere there, but he can't stop doing what he does .. its often the case... They know they drive people away and they hate it, but they don't know how to stop.

You will very likley need someone living with you while you are in protection phase, or your husband WILL talk you into contact with him and with his son again... when YOU go into protection phase, to HIM the GAME is getting you to BREAK protection phase .. once you do that, he's WON.

He WILL make a game out of it... you need someone to step up to run interference...

I don't think he's a terrible person, I used to have a buddy who was a serious sociopath when I was in university.. he borrowed a lot of money from people and didn't pay them back... He would just tell me, well, I can have 500 bucks free, OR I can have his friendship back... frankly his friendship isnt worth 500 bucks, so I am gonna keep the 500 instead. He cheated on his GF multiple times too until she finally got away from him...

I don't know what happened to him because he ended up taking money from me as well... i asked for it back and HE thought it was a game too... and I didn't want to play it and I just wrote him off... I don't know what he's doin now.. I don't know if he ever got past that problem of his...

Ya seriously, he might be a great father one day, but right now you need to protect yourself from him with no contact at all... you called there...

Your plan is still the same, you point him in the direction to get some help and you end contact until he's made headway there... if your F can get him a name of a professional who does that sort of thing then get him that much help and then leave him on his own to follow it or not... he's very likley feeding off the sympathy and sabotaging it later on... don't put more than one hour into pointing him in a healthy direction...

After that, he's on his own there...

I don't think he will take to no contact, I suspect he will hate it... that may just be the incentive he needs to change.. I would definitely go for it.