WAW Using God II

[pigskin]

Well it turns out that Knittedscarf's take on my wife was right.

Had 2 long conversations tonight, and long story short, we basically agreed that we're divorcing.

W is not open to reconciliation even though she says she prays for her heart to open and for our marriage to heal. She admitted that she had the kids around the OM last night, and that she has been communicating with him. Still tries to pass it off as "we're two friends" and actually objected to me calling it an affair, even though she has accepted it and heard me say that many times.

I told her I'm done with the affair, and if she is not going to stop then I am going to file for divorce. She said why do that when there are other less expensive ways to do it? I just told her I'm going to protect myself and my children.

We went back and forth over the same old stuff we've rehashed a thousand times. She was pretty emotional. Says she's cheated in every relationship she's ever had, although has never had sex, "that's a line I don't cross".

I told her how it angers and frustrates me that our kids are going to be devastated. She still tries to downplay it.

She says how she wishes her heart did not feel the way it does, "but I don't have a choice". I told her she has a choice. She can choose to stay in the relationship and work on it, and the feelings of love will return. It won't be easy, but it is your choice. I'm the one with no choice, since I can't control what you do. It takes two people to get married, but only one to end it.

I asked her to do it for God, not for me. Take the chance and trust that God will take care of all of your feelings for you. But it was pretty fruitless. She even said she was thinking the other day "Who said the Bible is a closed book? What if God is saying to Himself, 'You know, I don't think the same way as I did when that book was written, I have some different ideas now.'"

That's about when I threw up my hands and gave up. I still tried to reason with her and at least give her confidence that I am on board with doing all I can to reconcile. But it was all falling on deaf ears.

So now I've got to start doing some research on filing. What sucks as well is that I'm in the middle of a job search so I've got a lot of balls in the air. Just gotta pray and handle it.

[MrBond]

Did you bring up the R talk?

Honestly, I think the conversation went too long. She crossed your boundary with the OM. Case closed. So are you going to re-enforce the rule about her not being able to have the kids? Do so.

As to the God talk, when she started talking about how God might look at things differently, I would have held up my hand and told her to stop. Then left.

Don't give her the chance to justify anything in her head. Or just laugh at it and walk off. There comes a time when you need to hit her with a truth dart every now and then. My W was the same way in the beginning until I told her to stop talkin' because I wasn't listening any more. Or at least listening to her jibberish.

I would tell her firmly what the "truth" was and left it at that. Calmly, assertively. Made her seem like the crazy one.

Don't ever plead or reason with a crazy person.

I would go ahead and expose the OM to his family ASAP too.

[pigskin]

The R talk just kind of came about, I really had no intention of getting into it with her. But honestly, she really seems like she has made up her mind and it is over. That is why the only thing I have to cling to is the hope that somehow God will reach her and she will receive His message.

I can't legally keep the kids from her, and I wouldn't do that to them.

The OM's family knows all about the affair.

Yesterday I prayed for God to take all the anger and resentment from my heart, as I was feeling a lot of it. Wanting justice and "payback".

Today in my lenten handbook the message for the day was "Remember to Forgive", and it made me break down and cry.

[Steve McQueen]

She said "you wouldn't approach some random girl that way, and right now I'm feeling that I am that random girl".

I guess I'm looking for some female perspective on this.

Doesnt matter if you get a male or females prespective on this one, it is obvious... She has no sexual interest in you any longer.

It is not like you came to her in a towel and she said, "boy, could I go for a hot dog right now." She practically said you are just another guy who doesnt do anything for her.

What if I drew the picture this way:

You are in bed watching a Knicks game. Your wife comes in wearing only a towel. Stands before the mirror, her hands under her breasts raising them up a bit, and she says to you, they look just as good as they did 20 years ago dont they, and you respond, I dont know, they look like boobs to me.

?

[robx]

I asked her to do it for God, not for me. Take the chance and trust that God will take care of all of your feelings for you. But it was pretty fruitless. She even said she was thinking the other day "Who said the Bible is a closed book? What if God is saying to Himself, 'You know, I don't think the same way as I did when that book was written, I have some different ideas now.'"

LOL! Yeah I'm sure God says to himself "I'm thinking differently today then I was yesterday, interesting that an omnipotent and omniscient (all knowing) God would really waver back & forth every day on decisions he's made in the past.

She's in her WAW fog and she isn't coming out anytime soon.

Observe reality.

You're still applying male logic to female emotion and that will never work.

In her emotional state she will rationalize every decision she makes as being ok because she's in love with her feelings, you've had to have noticed this by now.

Stop pursuing, stop R talk, move in the opposite direction.

Seriously, waiting around for her is not going to get her back into your arms & heart - how could it?

You're there and you'll always be there for her, she knows this, just as she knows water is wet and we need air to breathe, it's 100% solid fact to her.

To change your current reality and reach her emotionally, you have to somehow affect her emotionally.

How does her interaction with the OM affect you?
You feel jealous a little bit, he has what you once had and still want. He's now spending time with YOUR kids and she rationalizes it as OK.

Date other women.
Don't flaunt it in front of her but go out and boost that confidence of yours by meeting other women, social interaction with other women will do what nothing you've tried thus far will ever do, it will boost your confidence and ego, it will put you on level playing ground with her, she will notice you're no longer pursuing and that you are out more often then you were previously and then at one point through no overt act of your own, she will find out that you've started moving on and dropped your attachment to her.

That is what will wake her up, that will be the way to reach her emotional state.

She controls you, women who control men have no interest in them whatsoever - internalize that and remember it. She can't respect you and she definitely can't love you regardless if you tell her to ask God to help her love you. That's like asking her to eat a huge plate of food that she hates most in the world but telling her it's ok and to ask God for assistance while doing it.

That would never work.

Observe reality and do what works.

Otherwise continue posting on this forum asking for advice or opinions on recent interactions but know full well that your situation won't change until you take action to change it.

[pigskin]

You make very good points robx, I especially liked the one about the plate of food. Thanks, I needed the slap in the face.

I haven't dated but I have gone out a couple times with a woman I find attractive and her friends. The last time I did it I found myself thinking about her a lot the next day, and seeing my W in a negative light compared to her. I actually think it lessened my feelings for my W. It gave me a little bit of insight into where my wife is. My interaction was mild but yet caused me to keep this woman constantly in my thoughts the following day. My W is in a full blown EA and has given her heart fully to another man. I can see how that would COMPLETELY push me out of the picture in her mind.

What I struggle with is that dating while married runs counter to my religious beliefs, and would seem to make me a hypocrite. How can I stand for my marriage while going outside of it? A very difficult thing to do. I also get the feeling that my W would actually be happy about it. "Getting her off the hook" so to speak.

Do I view it as the ends justify the means? If it works to get her back is it then OK? I think those without the same beliefs would have an easier time with this.

That said, my marriage is closer to over than it ever has been. If anything, it would give me a head start on my next life. I have to start viewing my marriage as dead as far as what I can control. What irritates me about myself is that I was at that point and moving on, then got the head fake from my W in the form of a good conversation and a plan to go out on a date. Then the rug was yanked out from under me and now I have to start over. My fault totally, I know. I should have never left myself open to getting that emotional connection back without follow through or proof of a change of heart on her part.

Thanks robx.

[pigskin]

Journaling:

Interactions with W since our recent discussions have been amicable. She's helping me with a lot of job search stuff.

I am backing off completely again. I've realized that no matter how well I communicate her obvious contradiction between her new found faith and her actions, it has no impact that I can tell. In fact, I'm sure it has the opposite effect, since throughout our history she's always rebelled against any religious elements I've debated with her. In a way I'm stepping on God's toes here. It's His game now, and I have a feeling He wants me to step aside and let Him handle it. Any progress He's making is undermined by my own words.

Her baptism is a big deal to me as far as becoming a full fledged Christian; I am happy about it, but really feel ambivalent given that she is doing it while committing what Christians would consider a horrible sin.

I told her I'd like to attend and she said she would like that, but wasn't sure if I'd be comfortable given "the other people who will be there", namely, the OM.

It is unfortunate that it came about this way, but the OM was instrumental in getting her to find faith. Without the affair, I would consider it natural for him to attend and would consider it strange if he did not. So I am torn in thinking that I should be there, but I still think that it is not a step someone should be taking in the current state she is in.

However that would be me judging her, and that is an issue between her and God. Right now I plan on going, as she is still my wife, and this is a big step in her life. When I ask myself "What would Jesus do?" I have a hard time coming up with an answer. I imagine He would have issues with her sincerity, but would stand there for her to see Him and know that He is not fooled. A reminder that you can pay lip service all you want, but until you are serious it is just a pointless exercise. Perhaps the hypocrisy of it all will weigh on her conscience. But I won't bet on it.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Wow. No way could I do that.

Yes, Jesus forgave the adulteress, but He also commanded "Go and sin no more." He reached out to the sinners, but He never wavered in His insistence that they repent from their sin.

It's certainly your decision, tho -- a tough, tough one!

Puppy

[silverado]

Pigskin,

This IS a tough spot to be in, but I think you are correct in that you need to quit trying to counsel her spiritually. That is what her pastor is for.

If I were in your shoes, I would --in confidence--call the pastor (you've spoken with him before, right?) and let him know you are thrilled that she has decided to be baptized, but you are concerned that she also seems to believe that this gives her license to sin, and because of God's grace, it will all be OK. Perhaps some additional pre-baptismal counselling by the pastor would be a good idea.

Let the pastor know that you and the children plan to be there to support her. Arrive early and sit in front. I think it would be a mistake to miss her baptism. Just my thoughts...

--Silverado

[idontunderstand]

Hey Pigskin,

You're in a tough spot. You want to support her but not condone her actions that clearly go against scripture. I agree with Silverado that you should contact pastor and consult with him. In the Catholic Church, you are not supposed to take part in the Eucharist if you have any sins that are not confessed.

On the other hand, as you know, a lot of people use God and religion to justify to themselves the things they are doing are OK because God understands, he knows my heart. IMO I don't think they are truly seeking God for forgivness and salvation, but as an outlet for their guilt. And that much is true: God alone knows her heart, not you and maybe not even her.

Not very good advise, but wishing you the best!