!Help! Need Advice and encouragement!

[sandi2]

If there's no excuses for her to come over while I'm around, how will she ever see anything about me or want to come back?

That is a common concern for LBH's. But, she will see you sometimes (b/c you have kids together) and she will hear others talk about youl.....and that really carries some weight.

can't really ask the girls to "go dark"--- And I don't even know if I should.

No, you shouldn't ask them. However, you do need to set down some boundaries or guidelines where contacts are concerned. Talk with D11 and explain that when she tries to do what she did with her mother (asking her to visit) it causes you & mother to have confusion & disagreements. She has to be made to understand (or at least abide by the rules) and that she can't play the two of you like that. It is hitting her so hard and I can't begin to know how she must feel.... I would have been absolutely devestated without my mother when I was eleven yrs. old. I think she may need to be assured that she is not "without" her mother in her life. God.......how awful for a little girl.

You & W need to have a scheduled visitation set up. That way, there is no question about visiting and when. If necessary, have the kids with scheduled phone calls. You may even have to monitor your D11 if she's going to do these little numbers, but I know you wouldn't want to do that. You have to do whatever to bring peace into your home.

I'm so sorry for your pain. I hope things get better soon.

[stark648]

Thanks for all your kind words, posts, and advice.
I honestly can't express how good it is to read your posts.

They REALLY help my day--and my days need all the help they can get!!

Yes, it is hard on the girls, too. Sometimes I just think my Wife is so selfish and messed up that she's evil. She does have the addictive personality, and I know she's addicted to this OM.

BUT, it does seem like she's not completely happy, if she's having to see her therapist(therapist=bad news, though, anyway). It's probably only guilt about the family, however.

I've moved on from broken-up long-term relationships, before, but this one involves kids---and even though it would be difficult even if we were to get back together, it's worth it to me for them and us as a family.

My d-15 put her arm around me yesterday and said, "Well, we lost two members of our family, but we're still a family, and we're going to make it and be all right."

I love my girls and I'm tearing up right now for them.

I know you've helped a lot of people on this website, and it is a wonderful thing that you do.

How many successes have you seen, and what do you think are my chances? (I know you don't have a crystal ball, but what are the odds?)

We were together for 13 years---will it take about 13 months IF reconciliation's going to be possible at all?--or the two-year thing...or maybe not at all because they were such close friends beforehand. Does the fact that they were friends make it more or less likely for them to fail?

His AND her spending habits may help speed up disagreements at some point, I don't know...

I know, one day at a time...

Could you just wave a magic wand and fix it?? ha ha --

[sandi2]

One of my favorite success stories is a man who came here b/c his W had given "the" speech. She had been in a PA with OM, was pregnant, and in an EA with a different OM. The LBH did not know if it was his baby or OM's but he wanted to save his M and keep the baby whether it was his or not. He DBed his behind off and his W gave up both men, stayed in the M and had a baby girl. He wrote me not long ago and told me that they were doing great and that he would never forget the principles he learned.....and continued to use.

I figure if his could survive, anyone's can. You can read several under the forum that has the success stories. However, everyone doesn't post their story.

[stark648]

Wow---that is a heavy story...

I hope I don't have to face my wife getting pregnant.

To tell you the truth, though, I previously wouldn't have thought I would want to save the marriage if she were to find another man--let alone live with him!

It was wife's birthday today, (d-11 was born the day before her b-day--she always said d-11 was her b-day present)

d-11 called her and wanted to see her.

Wife called me and was going to come by to see d-11, but we were at softball practice for other daughter, though.

I'm sure she was disappointed to not see her on her b-day.

I did tell wife "Happy Birthday" when she called. I think it would have been rude not to at that point, even though maybe not divorce-busting by saying it. She said thank you and sounded grateful that I had said it.

I told her to check her voicemail, that the girls had sang Happy Birthday to her on the way to softball. I know she's missing the girls.

I did tell d-11 not to call and invite her momma over without my permission anymore. I had a hard time explaining, but I insisted she stick to my rules on this. I also tried to comfort her, as she was upset.

Before bedtime, the girls and I were all kinda playing around, tickling, pinching, throwing stuffed animals at each other, etc. It seems like everything's normal and okay when we do stuff like that. We've been doing it a lot lately.

I have always tucked them in and kissed them goodnight, too.

I think the girls are doing as good as can be expected.

I like to think it's not as rosy over at OM's house as wife would like it to be...

I'd still like to tell her the "you've made the biggest mistake of your life" speech. She really does listen to people and can be swayed---even by me, even now, I think.

But I'm trying to let her figure it out on her own. I just don't think she can with all the other input of bad info and advice.

Seems like somebody ought to at least throw that opinion out there. Instead of advice like : "take care of you"-- "follow your heart" --"do what feels good"--"you deserve to be happy"

I gotta go pray and sleeeeeep...

[stark648]

We had coffee last night.

W was saying she felt like I was keeping the girls from her. She was sick and looked really sad. Part of the time, she was tearing/crying, also.

I assured her I wasn't coming between her and girls, but that she left them and that was her choice. She said she was putting them first in leaving them with me and that they were always #1.

I said, "No, you have MAYBE put them as #2, but NOT #1. You put yourself first, by far."

I said visits just needed to be scheduled.

I also said the girls want her to stay, which is not going to happen, so they are always extra sad whenever she leaves. AND, I told her that she cannot maintain the same family-type relationship she had with them because things are different now.

We talked about a lot of things, and it wasn't a bad conversation. I was upbeat, positive, confident, etc.

She was talking about the college thing, and I told her that I had offered that before I knew she was dumping me for another man and LIVING with him. I said OM should be taking care of you guys. She said OM doesn't make near as much money as I do, and that after bills are all paid, they don't really have anything left. (They both spend a lot on small stuff.) (I don't really make that much money). I told her that that was the choice she made--it was her decision.

She was talking about how marriage was over long ago...she was not attracted to me romantically for a while, -the brother-sister thing- and I told her that we should have gone to counseling...(she agreed)-

I also told her about how I had felt that way before, but the romance had come back. I also said I felt she had a wrong conception of how a long-term relationship was.

BUT--I reminded her that a week or so before this mess with her OM got heated up, our friends were commenting how we seemed like a couple that had only been married a year or so, because we were so "close"--so I'm not buying all that

She even said that she told the girls she noticed that I am happier lately since she left.--I told her that I was just re-discovering me--working on me, going out, etc... I told her the girls were really nosy about who I was talking to or going out with.--

I reminded her that she had "shut me down" socially, way back when she was soooo insecure that she didn't want me talking to other women or going out with the guys--because I might meet other women. I told her I had been willing to do that for her and for the sake of our marriage, but I had kinda lost myself in there.

I also said it was wrong for her to have always had male friends and that she had emotional affairs with them. I said she had done that since we were married, and that she did not "guard" her heart as she should have.

This last one progressed to a physical affair. She said they did not mean for it to. I made a face and said she had put herself in a risky situation. I reminded her of the girl at work that was attracted to me--but I never let myself go anywhere with her (even in a group from work)--I would not put my marriage at risk.

I said, well, that's neither here nor there, now--

She kept talking about how unhappy she had been in our marriage. I told her that I thought the unhappiness had more to do with her own self-esteem, not us as a couple. This whole type scenario has played out previously over the years before (without an OM -at least to my knowledge). She used to finally say OK --it's not you, it's me--I'm not happy with me, and we would plan some constructive things for her self-confidence.


But she really keeps seeming like the bloom is coming off of the honeymoon over there. She doesn't seem happy, now.

It really wasn't a cranky conversation, like it may sound like.

We were leaving, and she seemed like she wanted a hug good bye or something--?? I kept my distance and just said "I'll see ya' later"

Any thoughts??

Advice???

[sandi2]

Well she certainly needed to hear every word you said to her.....and probably more. You seem to handle yourself well. I just hope you will continue to stand your ground and whenever she whines about OM not making enough money.....remind her that's the consequenses. Although, you shouldn't have to remind her with words......an all-knowing "look" from you should do as well.

I also said it was wrong for her to have always had male friends and that she had emotional affairs with them.

And for the life of me, I can't understand why a H would allow his W do have male friends and continue EA's. But I'll tell you this.....if she's always done you that way throughout your M, she probably will never stop. I doubt she would be able to without a lot of therapy b/c it is "herself" that she is unhappy with and she's trying to feel better with these EA's.

I hope you will not cave to her woes and continue to build your life and happiness. I just hope she'll take a long honest look at herself and what she has done to her family.....but she's not ready. She won't admit it b/c she's still talking about "herself" and "her" unhappiness instead of those she left in the dust.

Until she feels remorse for the pain "she" has caused instead of just thinking of how she was unhappy while M, she won't be ready to come back......not even close.

[stark648]

She would always tell me how she gets along better with men than women and that they are just friends.

Most were just friends, but some of them she talked to she seemed to get too attached.

Attached to where she would talk to them instead of me about problems. Mainly other Alcohol Anonymous members.

I stayed home watching the kids while she went to meetings, etc.

She had female friends there as well, but she seemed to talk too much to the males. One was like a father figure and she would talk to him about us and our problems. He would tell her where she was screwed up, usually, and then she would talk to me about it.

After he died, she and I got closer, but sometimes she got to where she would talk to others again---

We were arguing the other day and I told her:
"Look, if I was so da-n controlling, you wouldn't have been able to have coffee and hang out with all those other men!!" Most guys wouldn't have put up with that sh-- and trusted you! Obviously, I shouldn't have either!


I went out with a girl this weekend and we had a great time...
Nothing sexual or anything, but we had a lot of fun. it was the first "date" I've had in 13 years (besides W)

I think W will know about it, but I don't know if it will do anything good or bad--

I told the girl not to make any photos viewable on facebook, but her profile pic now shows her on one of my my motorcycles...if wife looks closely through her other friends' accounts, she may notice.

I'm not really concerned one way or the other.--I just am not a "friend" connected to wife's facebook account, so I don't have to see any pics of wife and OM or her posts about him (if they are there)

I am socializing lately and my confidence is getting even better. Apparently, I'm still attractive and look a lot younger than I am. I hear a lot of friends telling me I deserve better than my W and even her parents tell me I should get on with my life.

I am trying to divorce-bust, but I am also looking for new love and friend interests---not jumping into another relationship right away or anything, but I'm going to be going out more. I don't see how just keeping to myself or working on myself will help much. Honestly, the largest part of our relationship problems had to do with wife. --I'm not being self-righteous, it's just really true.

I'm not perfect, but she has too many issues that have all exploded together at once.

It seems like she will EVENTUALLY find out about the grass on the other side, BUT LIKE YOU SAY, can she change so that this wouldn't ever happpen again? And could I ever trust her?

If it wasn't for the kids and the "family unit", I don't know that I wouldn't hurry up and get a divorce. She's having BIGGER money problems now(bounced 3 checks), and now wants 1/2 of the tax refund-(talked about filing separately, too)--She also talked about getting an attorney.

So, I may have to do some filing quick !

[sandi2]

IDK, maybe it was how I was raised, but somehow I always had my doubts about these women who use the excuse that they make friends easier with men than with women. There is a reason for that, you know.

[stark648]

I've always felt she likes the male attention for all SORTS of reasons...

Which still begs the question:

Would I be better off without her?

I still love her, of course, that just doesn't shut off like a valve, but I do seem to be feeling much more negative towards her.

I'm trying not to be resentful or angry--that really would do ME more damage.

But, I'm also trying to look at her with my logical side vs. my heart.

Then, there's always the "do the right thing for the kids/family" thing also.

I'm just going to keep praying and doing the best I can to leave it in God's hands...He knows best, but sometimes I worry because I know He usually doesn't interfere with our "free will" to screw up our own selves.

He would forgive my wife, I know, but the consequences (like a pregnancy?-lack of trust, etc.) would still have to be dealt with. She would also have to actually be remorseful, and I don't see her there yet(if ever).

I also see that I keep feeling a bit less for her as time goes on...and I see more of her historically bad behavior.

In the meantime, I'm getting more addicted to the internet social websites scene and I gotta curb that!! I am experiencing 'where she was' before things got quite so crazy with her.

She was doing a lot of the Facebook, etc. right before things went sour. Shoot, I'm even kinda addicted to this DB website as well!

Any advice or opinions? It saddens me more as I feel the negative feelings towards my W --like she never really was that good of a mate in the first place.

We were very close emotionally off and on during our relationship(much more on, than off). The closeness is priceless in a relationship, but the roller-coaster drama that would recurr from time to time---I mean, I know all marriages have ups and downs, but---how much is too much?


I dunno--any thoughts?

[sandi2]

Sounds as if all the Internet stuff has your emotions clouded. I would suggest that you stay off the "social" part for a week. That will let you know how hooked you are. You are right, you don't want to pick up her habits.