you know what- he has admitted he doesn't know if he wants to divorce. To me that is gravitating toward you...so keep pulling away! Do the NC and make him miss you!
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
I will put this warning up now, because it could come at any time mb28
1. If your husband shows up one day and says he isn't contacting her anymore send him on his way 2. If your husband shows up one day and tells you he does not want a divorce and he wants to discuss your marriage, do NOT accept that, send him on his way 3. If your husband shows up and falls to his knees apologizing for being a horrible monster to both you and his children for months on end... send him on his way
MWD points this out in her book as well... DO NOT accept re-commitment when it is offered, this will cause a BACKLASH.. it MUST be gradual
The first time he shows signs of re-commiting, you do NOTHING
He has to want it BAD enough that he WILL DO the WORK... him just casually meandering about wanting to take you out with him and the kids is NOT ANYWHERE near what he should be doing yet... so the answer is the same as always
Gotta go, i am really busy...
If you can get to the same FT, SHE can tell him
"Your wife won't have anything to do with you until you have broken off ALL CONTACT with OW and are an OPEN BOOK to her... you hide ANYTHING from her and its GAME OVER"
The FT has to negotiate this deal, you are NOT in an emotional state where you can negotiate reconcilliation... keep turning him away...
I remembered a couple of other things my H said to me during our last convo on Friday night:
H: I know I'm hurting you M: Yes H: It's like I'm doing to you what you did to me 4 years ago
M: I didn't say anything, but I wanted to say this isn't even as bad as what I did to you. 4 years ago we we're fighting over something I don't even remember. I blurted out that I didn't love him anymore and that I haven't for 2 years and wanted a D. Then I went on to say how we would split things up. We didn't sep and in fact I apologized the next day and told him I said that stuff out of anger. Then I thought everything was fine after that, boy was I wrong.
H: When you did that to me, that is when I started to detach from you and let go H: I don't want to lie to you anymore M: Lie to me about what? H: Pause--- About how I feel and about the D H: I don't know when and if I'll ever be able to come back. It could be tomorrow or never and I know you won't wait forever.
When I turned down the invite from H today, he asked me what was wrong. I told him I wasn't feeling well, which is the truth. He didn't seem to care either way.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
Should mb28 still go to FT with her husband if he agrees to counseling before he shows up at her door and talks about re-commitmenting to the marriage? Just confused because if he goes with her to FT before HE comes to his own conclusion to re-commit could that been seen as mb28 pursuing.
My question is triggered by the statement: He has to want it BAD enough that he WILL DO the WORK... him just casually meandering about wanting to take you out with him and the kids is NOT ANYWHERE near what he should be doing yet... so the answer is the same as always.
If he is counseling with mb28 and he is still on the fence about what to do and then while in counseling he makes a decision to commit to his marriage, should mb28 still turn him down at first?
I apologize if I am confusing things for mb28 but I have been following her stitch and the advice she is given.
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
Should mb28 still go to FT with her husband if he agrees to counseling before he shows up at her door and talks about re-commitmenting to the marriage? Just confused because if he goes with her to FT before HE comes to his own conclusion to re-commit could that been seen as mb28 pursuing.
OK, I would not go WITH H. I would agree to attend a session individually. I would take my own car and NOT contact him before the session.
It's not pursuit, its a negotiation line.
When you do a NC with H :
1. You take away his wife 2. You take BACK your dignity
He WANTS to cake eat (in both yours and mb28's case I believe this to be true).
When you take away your contact, you take away the extra cake.. he WANTS that cake.
When you agree to go to a FT... you are saying "I am withdrawing my emotions, but I am willing to hear what a FT has to say since they are an approved professional. I will NOT listen to anything you have to say in private."
This isn't pursuit, its being mature enough to negotiate and to set an example for children to follow. You want them to learn to be willing to negotiate and allow people to be heard, but NOT to be walked on or used.
He wants that cake, if he wants it, he has to work for it by going to FT.
I would NOT make a huge production out of going to FT. I would coldly and dispassionately speak about the importance of marriage, of honesty, and of providing a safe and healthy home for children to be raised.
I would also tell the FT in H's presence that I do NOT currently have any respect for H's parenting right now, he's setting a terrible example for children that I do NOT think they should be exposed to. He is teaching his children to lie and exploit their mother - I do NOT want children exposed to his behaviour.
Originally Posted By: 4luv
My question is triggered by the statement: He has to want it BAD enough that he WILL DO the WORK... him just casually meandering about wanting to take you out with him and the kids is NOT ANYWHERE near what he should be doing yet... so the answer is the same as always.
Inviting your estranged wife on a playdate with your children while you are
1. Lying to your wife 2. Cheating on your wife 3. Provoking arguments with your wife
(feel free to add to the list above)
Is allowing him to SIDESTEP the work so he can just play. It is similar to him suggesting you two write kind text messages to send to one another.
Your H is trying to be a family without OWNING his destructive behaviour.
This is like a child who has misbehaved trying to charm their parents into taking him out to play instead of him doing the work he was given for being bad in the first place.
He's USING your pain to avoid consequences. He KNOWS you want to go... so he invites you.
Do NOT let your spouse off the hook, or they learn NOTHING.
I don't know if you guys read Sasha's post, but to summarize, she cheated on her H, and is frustrated that he doens't want to be married to her anymore, and that he's distant, that he's inaffectionate, and that he refused sex with her.
Well, helloooooooooooooo, she wasn't taking ownership of the damage she's done, she just wants to walk back into her marriage like nothing happened.
You CANNOT let that happen, this is a VERY COMMON mistake made for couples who have had infidelity hit their home. They don't do the work to repair the damage and a LOT of resentment remains in the home, AND your H learns absolutely NOTHING other than that he can stray and be blindly forgiven.
Mb28, your husband hasnt even ADMITTED an EA yet, much less a PA... you think he should get to have a playdate with you and the children? He admitted that he's hurting you, he KNOWS he is... but he isn't STOPPING... That's quite perverse to ADMIT you know you are doing damage to sonmeone and to keep DOING IT.
I would give him NC/Silent treatment until he addresses the infidelity with a FT... he wants to pretend it didn't HAPPEN.
I get the sneaking feeling mb28 that he wants you to give him a free pass to come back home.
It's your choice, but I think that's a HUGE mistake.
Let me ask you outright mb28. What does he need to DO, and what do you need to HEAR before you will fully be past the affair?
Make a nice list, 1 - 20 or whatever, each point is one line, don't write a paragrpah, itemize it like a list.. men LOVE lists, we don't want a paragraph.. we want a list.. so write a list.
This is for YOU right now, and for a FT later on.. don't show it to him.
What WORK does he need to do for you before all of this is history?
Originally Posted By: 4luv
If he is counseling with mb28 and he is still on the fence about what to do and then while in counseling he makes a decision to commit to his marriage, should mb28 still turn him down at first?
Originally Posted By: 4luv
I apologize if I am confusing things for mb28 but I have been following her stitch and the advice she is given.
1. find hope for his marriage if he hasn't got that, nothing else will move him forward 2. Then he needs to OWN his behaviour, he needs to list the DAMAGE he's done 3. Then he needs to do the work to make AMENDS. This is where he ENDS the affair. This is where your list comes in.
I do NOT think he should be doing ANYTHING with his wife until he's COMPLETED step 2. Until he acknowledges ALL the damage he's done and owned it, he gets nothing from you.
I do NOT think he should be offering to just re-commit, he needs to OWN the DAMAGE before committing, otherwise he is just asking for a free pass to come home no questions asked...
Woudl either you mb28 or you 4luv accept those terms?
If NOT, then you don't accept an offer to recommit.
When DO you accept an offer to recommit?
When he's done the WORK to EARN his marriage back.
What work does he need to do?
THAT my dear ladies, is what YOU two need to outline.
Note also... HE will be drafting a list for YOU as well.
BOTH of you will hand your lists to the FT, the FT will work with you to GUIDE you to doing this work during the week and the FT will ask your SPOUSE how successful the work efforts have been.. BOTH of you have work to do...
But he won't even take OWNERSHIP of DAMAGE yet...
If you want to give him a free pass to come back, that's your choice, but I don't reccomend it.
1. She will ask me each day how my day went 2. She will hug me when i come in the door 3. She will thank me for the housework I do
Yours may look something like this
1. He will tell me where he was during the day - each place he went to and who was there with him 2. He will let me check his phone and computer whenever I want without complaint 3. He will help me with the kids when I ask without any complaint
This is just an example.. but you BOTH give these to a FT, teh FT cleans them up and offers them as ADVICE to the otehr spouse on what work to do during the week.
Then during the session the followign week the FT asks teh spouse that supplied the list how well the OTHER spouse did... and then talks to the other spouse etc...
The FT works like a translator and referee for a short while until all teh bad behaviours are cleaned out of the home and you two can negotiate directly again...
I would even have negotiations happen IN session with the FT there first, and THEN once that was OK I would tehn suggest trying to negotiate without the FT tehre... this would take maybe 10 weeks or so total.
If you want anyuthing from your spouse that might trigger conflict, you put it in a list and take it to the FT, the FT pursues that on your behalf objectively...
Eventually you two would be good enough wtih each other that you can just look at each other and ssay "why do we need her anymore?"
THAT is like three months to maybe six months of work I summarized above, mgiht be less, might even be more, it all depends on the maturity of the people involved and the talent of the therapist.
