WAW and me in 11th hour!!!!

[Ken62]

Thanks sandi2!

W came over last night so that I could sign the title for her old car (Toyota Sienna Minivan) because she bought a 2009 Mini Cooper Clubman S with 6700 miles on it. Is this a MLC car or just something that says I am tired of having a minivan the last 20+ years or a little of both?

I stayed 4Cs and she brought up the fact that she had a meltdown that morning in the kitchen of her apartment. She basically said that she sat on the floor and cried on and off for an hour. She thought that she could do this and said that now that she is no longer living in the house she has "lost her job" which was taking care of the house and there was always something to do around the house. I think in the one bedroom apartment she has done all she can do and now she has a lot of "free" time to think about what is happening.

She mentioned that she might look into IC and I asked if she was thinking of seeing our counselor who she has met with a few times but she wasn't sure. I didn't say anything else.

I took both of these things as good signs but I know that she will need to follow through because actions are what counts and not words. She also brought up the fact that she had been shopping for a desk and that the one that she found would go great in our house because it would match everything. I didn't say anything stupid like "you can move back anytime", I just let her talk.

Baby steps!!!

After showing me her new car, I said goodbye and she was getting ready to get in the car but came back toward me in the door. I said, "what's wrong?" and she said that she just wanted a hug and then she gave me one but I didn't initiate anything. She then went back to the car and we talked some more about the kids and I told her how our youngest hung up on me the other night and then I started to cry while I was telling her the story (probably not a very good move). She came over and gave me another hug and said that now that the kids know they have my unconditional love that they will do things like this. This daughter had an awful relationship with my W the last 4 years so W knows what she is talking about.

She then left and later sent me a text telling me that "I'm really sorry that D hurt you" and I texted back to her "Thanks! That means a lot but the good part is that I now have a heart that can feel and express that pain and love thanks to you! A year ago I would have been angry with her before and even more angry after she hung up. Now I feel sadness and remorse and I wouldn't change it for the world! I really don't like that old me." and then I sent her another one that said "I'm also very sorry for ALL the times that she hurt you!" and my W responded with "Thanks for that. Good night, Ken". I know I probably said some things I shouldn't have and probably looked weak so you will have to point that out to me so I don't do it again. 2x4's please!

Going to see the mediator tomorrow to sign papers and hopefully get the financial stuff taken care of and then the FIL and GF arrive to stay with me at the house for possibly a week. I may need help on what to say and not to say to them as well while they are here. They don't know a lot about what is going on or why it is going on but the W is very mad at FIL for saying things like "I'm not taking sides" because she feels that he should be taking her side regardless. The reason they don't know a lot about whay and wy is because W hasn't been very forth coming with anyone about explaining how she feels or what is going on. She just wants there unconditional support.

Going to stay as Dark as I can. Any advice here with the FIL and GF in town?

Pray for us!

Ken

[sandi2]

You started out really good. Did a bit too much talking toward the end. But you handled the hug very well. When she TM's you, just answer with one or two words, from now on, and don't get do like you did with apologizing for the D hurting her, etc. It isn't something to do by TM and it sounds a bit "kissing up" or like you're just trying to find something to continue to talk. Remember, you are suppose to be dark.

Stay away from subjects that will cause you to break down in front of her. She doesn't need to see that (even if she gave you a hug....it was a pity hug and you don't want that kind). She needs to see a man who is strong and a good leader over his family. You will do better each time, so I'm not beating you up over it.

The deal with her dad and his GF staying with you must make you uncomfortable. I bet your W will worry about what is being said.

If your FIL asks you what is going on, then I think you should tell him that she is addicted to EA with other men. She is in & out of one after the other.....or else looking to have one. Tell him that you've tried to encourage her to see an IC. If FIL doesn't ask any questions, then it's probably b/c he doesn't want to be caught in the middle. His GF.....well, don't know how long she's been around, and since she isn't family....I'd be very careful telling her anything. If FIL asks any questions, it will probably be when it's just the two of you men alone......but IDK.

Your W does not understand unconditional love according to what was said about your D or her dad. We will always love our children, but that is not to say we will support anything they do......at least we shouldn't. I believe we should have boundaries with our kids, and there should be boundaries with our S, as well. If there are no boundaries....that is when they lose respect and mistreat you! Kids or adults will do that.

[Ken62]

Thanks for the great response Sandi!

Well, we had the signing party at the mediators yesterday and the W was late and the mediator said she wanted to talk about the car. I said I knew she bought a new car but that was all. I started signing my things until the W got there and we signed everything and when that was all done the mediator asked W what she wanted to talk about.

W said that since we hadn't included the household furniture in the assets portion of the settlement that she felt that she should get some money for the furniture which she bought and loved dearly. She said that we had agreed to come back and talk about it at another time and this was that time. I disagreed and said that we had decided since it wouldn't fit in the apartment that I would keep it at the house and we could talk about it when she was in a place that could handle it.

She had just been told that she could move the big fat check from our joint account into her own account and then I took our joint credit cards and her ATM card for our joint account. She was starting to get real belligerent about me going back on my promise to talk about the furniture and I kept trying to tell her that I wasn't sure what she wanted. She tried to explain it and then I tried to explain that I was going through this process (the Bid D) because she wanted it and that she could do whatever she wanted to with the big fat check I gave her. But she still kept going back to the furniture like she wanted more money and I finally said for her to write up a proposal because I had no idea what she wanted. She did get to me and I started doing some R talk which was not good and that set her off where she started saying the usual, "I don't get you and you don't get me" just because we couldn't talk about this issue but I also said that I felt that every M could be saved and that she disagreed and I believe that love is a decision and she thinks it is a felling and she said that it is both. I also said that I was doing all of this for her and she came back with "You want this too because you don't want to be married to someone who doesn't love you completely" This line really bothers me but I tried to keep my cool. I basically held my ground and didn't give in on anything because she also tried to bring up the car that she just bought and tried to get me to offer to help pay for some of it.

When we left I saw that she debated about giving me a hug but quickly decided against it. She certainly came with an agenda and when I didn't give in to her demands she was pissed! Like I said, I backslid and I realized twenty four hours later that she was testing me like my DB Coach Chuck said she would and I think I failed the test. I believe the W went home and immediately changed her status to Single on Facebook. Whether it was because she was mad at me or not I’ll never know.

She was also nervous about FIL and GF coming to town and they did get here and we talked last night and I filled them in on everything after they said that they really didn't know much. They told me that they would stop me if I got into an area that they didn't feel they should know. I told them about the EAs (they don't like either guy and saw both of them when she would bring them around (usually unannounced)). FIL has been really telling W that her reasons for leaving me are BS as far as he is concerned and he has been trying to tell her that she is in for a rude awakening but she just gets upset and changes the subject and he can tell that doesn’t like it but he is one of those guys that just doesn’t quit. I’m not sure if this is helping or hurting my cause. I think it is hurting it but what can I do about what he says to her. It’s his daughter and he thinks he’s trying to talk some sense into her. Any thoughts?

Had a GREAT IC session today and had a few texts and phone calls from the W since yesterday morning and then she came over tonight so they could go out to dinner. She asked if I wanted to go but I declined and just kept working on my stuff. Tried to act aloof. I’ll probably see her tomorrow at church and possibly after so this Going Dark stuff is tough when the in laws are visiting and staying with me but it’s fine. W looks really good though and it is hard not to touch her or complement her but I am doing good on both fronts. I really don’t think much will change in the next 3 months and that the D will go through but I have another DB Coach session with Chuck scheduled for Monday AM.

That’s all for now,

Ken

[Surviving03]

I am very curious what kind of advice you will recieve on here about about your FIL trying to talk sense into your W. In my sitch, my MIL has been trying to talk sense into my H as well as some friends, and he has now completely shut EVERYBODY out. The only person he is talking to right now is a friend that had D his wife. I havent heard from him myself in 2 weeks. Hasnt called in 5 weeks and hasnt emailed in 2 (he is in Iraq right now)I am going to keep reading your posts and follow along.

[Ken62]

Thanks meghunny! I wish I could offer you advice on your sitch but I'm also fairly new to the boards. I do think that you need to stay dark and GAL but the cruise is a tough one.

Best of luck,

Ken

[sandi2]

My reasons for informing your in-laws of the WAW's EA's was not to get him to talk to her but to let him know the truth about what's going. If the family & friends begin putting pressure on the WAS, they shut everyone out. That is why they often get a new crowd to run with. I believe that parents have a right to know the truth and should hear it from either the LBS or the WAS other than somebody else. The WAS will mold it to sound biased so it is better for the LBS to tell.

You cannot control what your FIL does and if he talks to her, then that is his business. She will probably break ties with him to some extent.

[Ken62]

Agreed Sandi! It was good for them to hear the truth about the EAs from me but I know that I can not control what they say to the W and I do think that any pressure will be received negatively by her but I also know that I can't control what they talk to her about. I just need to let it go!

Came home yesterday to find my copy of Love Dare and the movie Fireproof moved from the sofa table in the living room to the night stand in my bedroom. I guess W didn't like it out in plain view when she came over to the house. Maybe she feels that I'm trying to manipulate her or something (which I'm not) by leaving it out and she had finally had enough. Too bad she doesn't give me the same consideration when she wears the motorcycle coat over to the house that she got from the first EA. I'm sure that she would see these things as NOT being the same and would have a perfectly logical explanation why her wearing the coat is NOTHING like leaving that book and movie out for everyone to see.

Didn't have my DB Coaching session today with Chuck. He is in the hospital. Will need to reschedule. Hope he is alright!

I also need to vent about W always saying "You want this (D) too because you don't want to be married to someone who doesn't love you completely." Is she trying to alleviate her guilt about the D? Is she trying to make it that it is a joint decision and not just hers? I would LOVE to be able to tell her: "YOU are the one who wants the D, I do NOT want the D. Yes, it is true that I do NOT want to M to someone who doesn't love me completely but I would want to work on the R and the M first instead of just giving up without even trying to fix it" but I guess WAWs don't want to fix it.

W told my D back in November of 09, "When do I get to live my life?" which hurt my D terribly. W said that my D took it out of context. What a pile of crap! Are WAWs trying to "find" themselves? Do they feel that they have lost their identity? Do they feel that they have been living for everyone else and that they want to do something for them for once? Is that why WAW are so similar to MLC?

As always a lot of questions about the state of mind of my W and where she is coming from.

Thanks for letting me vent,

Ken

[sandi2]

Came home yesterday to find my copy of Love Dare and the movie Fireproof moved from the sofa table in the living room to the night stand in my bedroom. I guess W didn't like it out in plain view when she came over to the house. Maybe she feels that I'm trying to manipulate her or something (which I'm not) by leaving it out and she had finally had enough.

That would have been my first thoughts, as a WAW. It did look pretty obvious from her POV.

I know there has been a lot of publicity about the movie and that book, but I would advise you not to use that advice. It is very, very pursuing and I can almost promise you that a WAW will not respond to it......especially if she is in an A.

"You want this (D) too because you don't want to be married to someone who doesn't love you completely." Is she trying to alleviate her guilt about the D? Is she trying to make it that it is a joint decision and not just hers?

It doesn't really matter what she's trying to do, but what you need to do is agree and say, "You are right. I don't want to be M to anyone who doesn't love me completely. I deserve to have a woman who loves me with all her heart." After all, why would you, or anybody, want to live with a person who did not love them? So, don't argue with her whenever she says that. I think you should agree! But. you don't have to agree that you want a D. I think it might help if you were to say, "You know, you are right about part of it". All that stuff you want to say to her just causes more arguments to break out.

What I'm trying to say is that as long as you try to convince her not to D you, and argue with her about staying M, she will fight you tooth and nail. But, if she thought you wanted to dump her so you'd be free to have another life with another person.....then I think it would change things considerable. I doubt the DB coach will tell you that, but that's my opinion. It's just the way most females are. As long as you chase after her.....she doesn't want you. If you act like you don't want her....she becomes interested.

but I guess WAWs don't want to fix it.

YOU'VE GOT THAT RIGHT!! Now, will you keep that thought in your head and stop trying to talk her into fixing the M that she doesn't want to fix? It isn't working, is it?

Are WAWs trying to "find" themselves? Do they feel that they have lost their identity? Do they feel that they have been living for everyone else and that they want to do something for them for once? Is that why WAW are so similar to MLC?

I don't think you can really group them all together in that respect. I believe "some" of them are trying to do some of those things, but not all of them. There is one thing I believe they all do have in common. I believe they are lacking something in their MR. I just believe that if they were completely happy or satisfied in the MR they would not leave it. Why would they? It may have something to do with not being happy with themselves or "trying to find themselves" but it still boils down to their R with their H, IMHO. I think if you are fulfilled in the R....why on earth would you leave to do these other things?

The things your W has said and done are very selfish and immature. Whenever a mother says that to her child, it tells me that that woman has a serious character flaw. (Are you sure you want to live with that person? She doesn't sound very nice at all.) You may come to the place that you decide you deserve better.

As always a lot of questions about the state of mind of my W and where she is
coming from.

I'm sure it is very hard to understand. In cases like your W, I think it is extra hard to deal with b/c of the attitude she has toward the kids. It hurts you to see how she treats them and what affect it has on them.

Anyway, I suggest you stop trying to convince her to stay in the M. I didn't say to stop working, but stop "talking" about how she needs to stay M and be a good mother, etc. Just leave her alone about all of that.

[jasper67]

I agree w/ Sandi- and I must say that you seem to have handled things very well thus far. What FIL does is his business I suppose, I hope whatever he does, if anything helps you.

You are fortunate that you were able to forge a good R w/ FIL and that W was not able to turn the tables on you w/ him.

My sitch is the opposite, and it really stinks to be left in the cold w/ everyone thinking you're crazy.

My W has done the same thing as far as having multiple A's (EA or PA), and consider yourself lucky that your W waited till the settlement was signed to switch her status to single...mine changed hers 5 months ago when we were going to MC, now "in a R" being moved out for a month and no M name anymore- nothing filed yet and still claiming, "I dont know what I want..."

Sorry I have not been involved in your sitch prior to tonight, but I do think you're doing things pretty well. We've all (accidentally/on-purpose) left a movie, picture, trinket, or article/book) out...in your case- she had moved out so it doesnt matter as much- IMO

Keep you chin up and hang in there

[Ken62]

In my defense The Love Dare book was bought by my W last April when it was recommended by a friend of hers and it is also listed on W's Facebook page as one of her favorite books. She just never gave it a chance and had already checked out and she even liked the movie more than I did when we watched it last September (I didn't even ask her to watch it with me).

Here is a post-it-note that I found inside The Love Dare book written by my W sometime last year. See if you can figure out what she means.

"I feel like I want to be convinced that Ken is who I should be married to... and therefore have trouble committing to this."

Huh? For the longest time I couldn't figure out what she meant by this. I finally came to the conclusion that what she meant to say was this:

"I have trouble committing to this book because I'm NOT convinced that Ken is who I should be married to."

Just food for thought,

Ken