Like Old Pilot posted, you might want to consider starting a thread of your own here, getting the opinions of others regarding this situation.
As for me; I see one thing right off the bat; your husband is chasing your daughter to try and have a relationship with her; and because she's refusing(which is her right, considering what's going on), he's threatening you in as many ways as he possibly can, so you'll "make" your daughter connect with him.
Plus, he's trying to put you AND your daughter on a guilt trip; take this all with a grain of salt; he's out of his mind at this point in time.
The relationship between the MLC'er and his nearly grown children is up to them; as hard as it is.
It DOES sound like a tantrum coming out of Withdrawal; "my way or no way/the highway" ; yet, from what I can see, he's STILL in Replay, what with the OW, younger friends, etc...he's still trying to be young again.
This is all about control, them attempting to control what goes on; maybe one last ditch effort on his part, to see if you/your daughter will cave to his demands.
It makes me wonder how the OW fits into all this; and what she is seeing at this point; I can guarantee you, she's getting all kinds of heck from him. When it gets this bad, she's NOT able to ignore it anymore, or even to "get away" from it.......not that anyone cares, but when the "relationship" between the MLC'er and OW starts on a downhill slide; this is a good sign things are getting ready to break between them. Let us hope that is what is going on at this point.
I think something has started him into that "awakening", and because he cannot see any further than the damage he's already done, he's blaming everyone but himself for this whole mess.
It's awful what they see within themselves; as they "awaken", and that alone can trigger a fit or two, or three.
It seems that they will "test the waters" to see what they can get away with, if that makes any sense at all; the self-respect of the LBS is generally at stake here.
And, well, what did he expect??? He's torn down the family unit, taken an OW, gone totally nuts...
I know it's stupid.
IMHO, you're doing well, staying backed off, and although you're reading his texts, you're still letting it go until he makes some postive movement forward; such as getting rid of that OW for starters.
Please do start a thread of your own if you haven't already; someone else may see what I don't.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Can you explain more about the tantrum coming out of withdrawal?
As the MLC'er starts coming out of Withdrawal, they are really, and seriously, for the first time, beginning to see the damage they've caused, the hurt they've dealt out, but something within them "tries" to do a "going back" to how things were BEFORE; so, in their minds, they do NOT have to face what they've done.
On top of that, the LBS has changed, and it seems to be too much for the MLC'er; and he/she is busy trying to "reverse" the clock, when, in reality, it cannot be reversed.
There are many "triggers" that can set off this tantrum, but the biggest one is control issues within the MLC'er, and the fact that LBS has come far enough and changed enough in their own journey that things are NOT going back to what they were before..and it is a source of confusion for the MLC'er; as if they aren't confused enough.
They begin their demands,(it looks like the "spewing" they've done in the beginning; only it's a little different) and the LBS refuses to comply. The MLC'er has NO idea how to relate to this "new person" they see standing in front of them, and so, in a last ditch attempt; the tantrum/storm begins.
If the LBS backs down, and gives in, it begins a cycle; the MLC'er runs backwards into the last place they were before the door is shut, and the journey out begins again; with added time, right back to the point of the tantrum.
This is a battle of respect between the two; as the self respect of the LBS is tested sorely as never before, and the MLC'er is trying to get them to back down and give in to whatever it is they are demanding. It can be anything from the MLC'er refusing to tell the truth; to the LBS refusing to "go back" to what the MLC'er once knew, or even something that relates to what the LBS used to do, but won't do anymore. It can the smallest thing that will set them off into this.
At this point, they are STILL looking for outside sources to blame for their inability to look within. The tantrum, such as it, FORCES it all to a head, and they will blow up, looking like a small child who hasn't gotten what they want.
It's not unusual to see them throw things, yell and scream, and threaten to leave, take away their love for the LBS; anything to try and hurt the LBS further. If the LBS is at a time in their lives where the verbal threats do not hurt them, they can take this all in stride; allowing the MLC'er to "spin-out" completely.
You watch this, but don't take it personally..it's not YOU, it's THEM. No matter what's said/done, just watch, listen and validate their feelings, but don't back down.
This doesn't make any sense, I know, but the tantrum is necessary to begin to clear their heads, and cause the MLC'er to look even deeper within himself/herself; heading them toward the necessary changes that will bring them forward into the stage of Acceptance.
This storm, doesn't have a time limit and the MLC'er may run the gauntlet of things he/she is demanding before it breaks. When it breaks, however, there is a period of time they should spend in introspection, relative peace, how long, I have no idea, then the MLC'er breaks down and begins talking about what has happened within them; they may tell all or they may tell part of it..but they will talk. Or they should.
***On a side note*** My husband spent a week throwing his tantrum, but it was three weeks before he broke down and started talking to me about what he'd been experiencing on the inside.
He did not want to face what he'd done to me, and wanted me to let things go back to what they were before, and I was unwilling to do that. In the knowledge, I could lose him in this, I had progressed to the point of being willing to lose all in order to gain something better(I hoped) I was the catalyst or the trigger for his tantrum; my unwillingness to back down and return to what I was before; as the "small" thing that brought about a huge storm.
Each person/situation is different; I've known several MLC'ers that threw their tantrums; and in each circumstance, their heads cleared and they came forward..but it took time and more patience; just as it did in my own situation.
The past presence of OW seemed to have increased his agitation, and his unwillingness to tell the truth further caused him to get "way out there" with his tantrum.
I will say this: he has NEVER talked about her, do not know if he ever will..but the other issues that he faced WERE talked about after three weeks of introspection.
I hope this will help; you are welcome to post further questions on the subject.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
HB, So do you think they all will throw a tantrum when they start out of withdrawal?
It depends on the MLC'er..I didn't include the tantrum when I was writing the six stages, because, quite frankly, I was and still am unsure if all do this or just a select few.
I've recognized that pattern in Cyclone's situation with his wife; and posted instructions for him..unasked for, but it hit me strong that way..the pattern was SO familiar it took me a minute or two to realize what his wife was doing.
I think, again, it depends upon the MLC'er and how willing they are to face their issues upon coming out of the Withdrawal stage. Some "fight" this every step of the way, as my husband did, and it culminated into a tantrum when truly beginning to come forward attempting to get over into Acceptance.
It's like some try to "short cut" the process; attempting to get out of facing the issues at hand, also attempting to manipulate the LBS to just "go back" like nothing ever happened, and this just cannot be..this is an answer that's coming out of nowhere for me; as I knew and know "why" the tantrum can happen, not exactly "how" they get to that point.
I did NOT throw one that I remember coming out that same stage, and my husband has never mentioned me throwing one..and I can tell you if I did it, he's going to tell me about it. LOL!
I hope this helps.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Do you think OW could still be around during this time of awakening?
Yes, most definitely..it varies, though; some experience an ending of the Midlife affair, then go through the awakening experience; some are still in the affair when the awakening hits, something significant happens to make them wake up to what they are doing; and they start doing crazy stuff. It doesn't always have something to do with LBS and the family they left behind. For some, it's like they "wake up" and all of a sudden realize they are losing everything, for others they are "caught" in the Midlife affair, for still others it's the discovery of the sneaky things they've been doing that they can't deny.....and what comes about is a total confusion within; then a direction comes open for them to begin to try "fixing" things; setting things back to what they were, or so they think.
Their house of cards begins to fall apart, and the abuse they've heaped on the LBS for a time then can transfer to the OW to make her go away. At the same time, they act crazy enough that LBS begins to wonder if he/she's lost MORE of their mind.
They are "time challenged" having more or less LOST that time, and don't understand why everything has changed..Memory loss is a hallmark of this; they really DON'T remember a lot of the stuff they did..there's so much damage they don't even know where to begin to start.
And the pressure mounts, even as OW Withdrawal sets in after they get rid of her. They're on edge as never before. I'm not saying have sympathy for the crap they've gotten themselves into, but some understanding is in order here.
I had a rough time understanding it, myself; had to have it explained several times..as it was mind boggling to me.
That's why detaching, distancing and just watching the situation is important for the LBS; NO SENSE at all can be made of what's happening during this time.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
HB,
Although I find many of your posts to be helpful to many of the newcomers, could you also please reiterate the fact that your information and knowledge is based on first hand experience and that each person here has to go through their own journey and that it WILL be different for each person.
You can not guarantee that anyone's spouse will come out of their MLC by following your simple steps to success.
NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THE MLC'ER THINKS OR WHAT THE OW THINKS.
We can only assume things, and usually most of the things in our head are worse then the reality of the situation.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Hi again HB! I was reading what you wrote to Hopeforchange about almost adult kids and the Mlcer having to work on their R's themselves. My H has a son from his first marraige that has tried calling him several times and H has only returned one phone call. I had spoken with a DB coach and she thought maybe H was not feeling wanted or needed so I encouraged SS to keep calling H and trying to include him in their lives. I guess my question is that I know that "I" need to step back and detach but what about the adult children of a MLCer? My SS is not very impressed with what his Dad is doing but would still like to have a R with him.
M48 H53 M16 T18 S16 D13 SS30 H drops bomb PA/8-30-09 H leaves 12-30-09 D filed by H 2-10 H asks to come home 4-11 Piecing
Although I find many of your posts to be helpful to many of the newcomers, could you also please reiterate the fact that your information and knowledge is based on first hand experience and that each person here has to go through their own journey and that it WILL be different for each person.
I HAVE said all these things and many more since I got here. I have also done quite a bit of illustrating, attempting to comfort, build the confidence of the people here, all the while, saying again and again, that each person has to take their journeys on their own, not all people are the same, there are NO guarantees in MLC or life in general; that what is important is the journey taken to wholeness.
Again, people must take the journey, coming out as better people, regardless of whether the marriage makes it, does not make it; those that come through have gained the tools of a lifetime, and the changes ARE necessary to be successful in the coming through.
The six stages were written as a GUIDE and nothing more; they were NOT "simple steps to success".
The lessons I wrote were for all people going through their journeys; things they would have to learn.
As far as people attempting to "fit" their situations into those six stages, that was the same as when I was here the last time.
I've been TOTALLY honest about not having all the answers; if I did, NO ONE would have to go through this.
With that said, I take total responsibility for the answers I do give. I researched heavily years ago; and answers I give in the direction of MLC'er/OW thoughts/actions come from that research, not necessarily the particular situation I faced.
I have observed several MLC situations since my own ended, and have drawn knowledge and understanding from those, as well.
I have a tendency to look within a situation from the OUTSIDE. I'm not in it, therefore I can see a little more; I look for the factors driving an event, not always the event, itself, and these type answers are NOT ALWAYS based on what my situation entailed, though a memory or two may come up from that time.
I have NO ego about this, nor do I have any "illusions" about myself.
EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT, EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT; AND ALTHOUGH GENERAL KNOWLEDGE IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING, YOU CANNNOT BASE YOUR SITUATIONS ON "ASSUMPTIONS"; ASSUMING THAT BECAUSE I OR ANYONE ELSE TRAVELED ONE PARTICULAR PATH, YOU WILL DO THE SAME. THIS PATH, CONTAINS ITS OWN TWISTS AND TURNS, AND IS UNIQUE FOR ALL INVOLVED. I DO NOT HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL, AND CANNOT SEE THE FUTURE. THE FUTURE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT, AND MAKE IT A GOOD ONE.
PLEASE REMEMBER THIS!
Remember, as each person is different, every MLC/Transition is different..what works for one may not work for another. Most of the time it is trial and error for ALL involved.
