!Help! Need Advice and encouragement!

[stark648]

I told her we needed to do separate parties and so now we are.

I explained about the roller-coaster effect on the girls and how their hopes get up and then dashed, etc. I told her she can't have it both ways. We can't be like a family and her live somewhere else, and so forth.
She was saying, "Well, the reason I did it like this (leaving girls here) was to do the best for them." I said, "That's why it needs to be like this". I asked her how it was when her parents got divorced and she felt seeing them together, etc.

Birthday girl is fine with it, she said momma would probably just sit and text anyway-maybe eat some cake. she also gets to go two places for b-day. I had a long talk w/d15 ---and s16 when he called later. They were thinking it was mean and sad. I couldn't explain EVERYTHING about it to them, but that they would have to trust my judgement.

I signed over titles and she signed a settlement/sale agreement I had put together.

I got her bike charged and started. I was working on it for a bit. I loaded up some more stuff in her truck to get it out of here, also.

This was the longest she stayed and talked since I can remember. In fact, she only left when I said I had to go pick up d15. She was looking rather sad and tearing here and there. I also noticed the way she was looking at me sometimes---attracted! I was upbeat, confident, joking, lookin' good, etc. (She complimented me on some things). We had a very nice visit and talk.

At some point, she told me she was going back to her therapist tomorrow. (This is the first time she has been to see that crazy woman since this whole mess got started.) I'm thinking Paradise Hotel isn't really bringing her as much happiness as she thought.

Then she was sitting in her truck and looking at me a lot (in a good way).


Here was the thing----she kept acting like she was going to ask me something. She finally started saying: "Why didn't you......." and didn't finish. Then I said --what ? What did you want to say?


She said, "You didn't fight very hard."


I said, "What, for the bike?" (I knew what she meant)

So I quickly said, "Oh, I've just been thinking about some things lately--just thinking about some stuff"

That was when I said I had to hurry up and go get d15.

It was hard not to talk more, but I think I did it right?

She must have gone back and cried--about the party--because s16 called me and was angry-(protective). I calmly explained to him and we were ok before we hung up.

At some point, I think I heard her crying loudly in the background. That just sent chills up me. I do still love her, you know. I hope this b-day restriction is the right thing to do...Her family is going to think I'm just a butt-head, I'm sure.

Did I do right????

[sandi2]

Well, if it had been me, I would have waited until after "this" party to start having separate one....since it was so near and you were already paying for it.

In the future, I think you need to have something different from whatever she has planned for them. If she has a skating party, then you could have something else. Find out what the kids want and go from there.

It's hard on everyone when the couple who is S is together in a group. They feel uncomfortable and things are too raw & fresh and emotions too high.

What do you think about how she visits at the house? Should I tell her she needs to take them somewhere else when she visits? It isn't her house any longer...

Okay, I don't want to get my threads confused here....but did you tell her that she could spend time there while you went someplace else? Your idea for doing that was a valid point, but it would not be realistic for any long term plan.

I suppose the way around that is to calmly tell her that since the two of you are S, then both of you need to act accordingly in regard to her staying the weekends in the home. Therefore, she should not come & go into your home as if it was hers. She needs to think about it as "your" house and respect your privacy. But make sure this is what you want to do.....and if her name is on the morgage, then she probably has legal rights, but you just need to find out from the lawyer about all of that. You could change the locks to the outside doors to prevent her entering whenever nobody was home. After all, you don't know who all may have a copy of the home keys by now.

Think it over, b/c if you believe it would have more influence for her to be there with the kids and for her to see you having a life without her.....then that might be the better route. If it would be best for the kids, then do it. Just think it over really good before you jump off into something you will regret. She will not like it, b/c she wants both worlds (her home environment with the kids, plus OM & their love nest). Don't be afraid of her emotions.....just be strong & confident.

[stark648]

I had already changed the locks--

I purchased the house before we were legally married and it is in my name only.

I really have the two questions though---should I go ahead and let her come to the skate party? I feel like a heel. I don't care that I paid for it, I always paid for most everything anyway.

WHAT I'm REALLY wondering about is ::
*********************************************
She said, "You didn't fight very hard."

I said, "What, for the bike?"
(I knew what she meant: the marriage)

So I quickly said, "Oh, I've just been thinking about some things lately--just thinking about some stuff"
*******************************************************
WAS THAT A GOOD RESPONSE OR NOT?

How can I show her I still love her and yet be independent and GAL and that possibly she could come back---without my seeming like I'm sitting around waiting??

[sandi2]

I told her we needed to do separate parties and so now we are.

should I go ahead and let her come to the skate party?

IDK, have invitations, expenses, etc. been out toward the second party? I think you are going to look kind of like a jerk. You should have waited until after this party to start the separate ones. Is this suppose to be a party you are hosting....or your W? If she is hosting it, then I think it would be very rude to try to stop her from coming. If this is the party you are giving.....I thought she agreed for separate ones? IDK, I'm confused.

So I quickly said, "Oh, I've just been thinking about some things lately--just thinking about some stuff"
*******************************************************
WAS THAT A GOOD RESPONSE OR NOT?

When in doubt...don't say anything.

How can I show her I still love her and yet be independent and GAL and that possibly she could come back---without my seeming like I'm sitting around waiting??

You stop letting your fear show. You move forward and think about letting self confidence show. You think about a great personality showing. By acting like a man who any woman would be crazy to leave.

If you start worrying about how will she see how much you love her....it will turn you into a whimp. Don't think about that right now. Think about how you could be a better individual person--and cause your life to become more fulfilled.

[stark648]

The party is one I had set-up at the skating rink.

Last night, I was talking about her taking daughter to her sister's for b-day party #2, which was another option she had spoken of earlier-She had originally meant it in place of a skate party, before the party was scheduled. So I said maybe d10
could have two parties. BUT:

I felt like such a heel. I wanted her to feel the family loss(which she hasn't really seemed to) and do the separate party thing, but I felt really bad and called her this morning. I told her that I felt the Holy Spirit was making me feel bad--like when you make a bad decision-and that I felt like she should come to the party. She was sounding quiet and emotional. We didn't talk much, and I got off rather quickly to get back to work, but it was a good, if short, conversation.

Last night I know she was thinking I was looking good and she was attracted. So I must be exuding some sort of confidence, etc. I think she was sad that I was not more upset about the divorce. I think she felt like it was sort-of finalized when I gave her her truck and motorcycle titles.

I do think she wanted to talk about my letting her go "so easy", and I was afraid I should have said something more--but:

I'm trying to DB and let her come more to me (and give up OM completely FIRST!) I think she's starting to realize she's not all "happy" over there and that's why she was seeing the therapist today. That therapist will probably give her crappy advice, however...

Even so, my admitting the party thing was a bad decision and it made me feel bad may make her think some about why she feels so crummy lately (her bad decision).

Does any of this look at least a little promising?

[sandi2]

Even so, my admitting the party thing was a bad decision and it made me feel bad may make her think some about why she feels so crummy lately (her bad decision).

Not sure I really follow this, but anyway the way you base decisions is whether or not it is the "right" thing to do and then she has to deal with any fall-out of emotions. You can't opperate out of emotions b/c you'll sure get messed up during the state you are in now. I have learned that anytime I make a decision when I am emotionally high or low.....it stands a risk of being one I would have done differently if it had been based on logic instead of feelings. Another thing, if you tend to have a "motive" behind everything you do......like.....hoping she will see this or that; hoping she will miss certain things, etc.,...that is too draining on you. We point things out about those things trying to demonstrate the principles behind the DB technique, but then you just need to live everyday as richly as you can and to the best of your ability......do what is right.

Do the best you can with the BD thing and don't make yourself sick over it. I would like to point to something that kind of jumped out at me. You were making the BD #2 party suggestion and what they could do. Now, if your W was suppose to be in charge of party #2......you needed to keep your mouth closed b/c that is seen as controlling. If your W is in charge of doing things from her side of the fence.....that should not include you or your opinions. (Should not include your finances toward the party, either.) See what I mean? I'm sure you never thought of that and was trying to be helpful, but in the future you need to be careful about doing it.

[stark648]

Yes, I want to do the right things --I think the party thing just happened to work out the way it was supposed to. We are about to go to it now and I hope it turns out well. (I think it will)

I am pursuing some social avenues, but my schedules with the girls restricts it.

It frustrates me that she's got it almost like a "honeymoon" set-up at her new house with only one 16-year-old boy that takes care of himself.

She and OM can socially go do whatever whenever they please, while I'm going to girls' stuff and taking care of their needs, etc.

She and I NEVER even had that, because when we got together, she already had two kids, 2 and 4 yrs old---And that was okay, I raised them as my own, but she and I never had a true honeymoon phase. Then we had the youngest... What's weird

Plus, the divorce-diet has worked wonders for her! She's lost lots of weight she has always wanted to lose!!

I'm just jealous and discouraged.

I do have some female interests I am pursuing, but I am not that excited about them---even if they are very attractive, they aren't my W.

[stark648]

Party was great-daughter and friends had a great time. Wife and I visited and were sorta like we were together.

She was touching me...not like sexual, but nicely on the arm and things-calling me "babe",--this-type behavior was just like we did when we were together. Sometimes moving very close to me-leaning on me-even when I would move away some-she would come closer. This did not seem just like "friendly".

She still has some good feelings for me in there somewhere.

She helped out a lot at the party and we worked as a team with presents and watching kids, you know, the usual party stuff.

When she first got there, a couple of times, she was tearing up, I think d-11 may have said something that made her cry, or ?.

She would go out to smoke, and would use some excuse to get me to go outside to visit--just wanting my company, I think.

She got a couple of texts during the party, but got rid of them quickly to be polite. I ALSO had a couple of texts from a woman, and tried to do the same. She was quite interested in my texts or phone pics, as I was being kind-of secretive and quickly closing it.

I was upbeat, smelled good, etc. She was complimenting me about some small stuff-and I complemented her on how the girls were getting prettier, just like their momma.

Mainly, though, it was more like old b-day parties and we rather enjoyed each other's company. She was not resentful, like some visits, or like there was anger under the skin.

On the outside, I was confident, positive and attractive--and she noticed.
On the inside, every so often, I would feel sad we weren't really together. But for that time period, it was almost like we were. And her eyes looked better for the most part-and she would look me in the eyes more.--even some interested-type looks. I caught her noticing me when I wasn't looking at her.

Should I try calling or texting her more and re-build our friendship? After all, the OM moved from being a friend to the EA/PA "steal-my-wife-and-move-her-in" boyfriend. COULD IT WORK TO BRING HER BACK? OR DO YOU THINK SHE WOULD JUST LIKE TO REBUILD OUR FRIENDSHIP FOR FRIENDSHIP'S SAKE. ADVICE?

I know from the last three encounters, she still has some attraction & a smidgen of love for me.

Then she was getting tired, like she does lately, which may be due to lack of sleep--or like me, I seem to need more naps from the anti-depressants or the stress. or, she may have been ready to go see OM at their house.(but she did look worn out)

Well, on the way home, and then for hours, I texted back and forth with a nice attractive woman I met on the net. We may have a date next weekend. She knows my sitch. It is nice to feel attractive and have someone who is truly interested in me.

The date would be fun, and would probably help my self-esteem.(the conversations already have) I'm not giving up on the marriage, but connecting with other females sure seems like GAL'ing for me.--Boosts me up and distracts me from so much pain so often. I am still attractive, interesting, and fun!
The women know my sitch, but they like my attention to them, also.

It also seems to make my W rather more interested than she should be, if it's true she doesn't really care who I am involved with.

On the other hand, W seems commited to her choice in OM and has not given any indication she will ever change her mind about him. I DON'T GIVE UP HOPE, BUT I'M NOT EXACTLY SITTING AROUND WAITING FOR HER TO CHANGE HER MIND, EITHER. It will be strange if she shows up again at church tomorrow. I better get to sleep, or I won't be at church, tomorrow!

[sandi2]

You handled yourself very well.

Should I try calling or texting her more and re-build our friendship?

No, b/c of a couple of reasons. First, it is too soon and it would be pursuing. It would backfire. Seondly, it won't work for you to try to steal her from OM b/c she doesn't see you like that. My advice is to stay as dark as possible as long as OM is in the picture.

DO YOU THINK SHE WOULD JUST LIKE TO REBUILD OUR FRIENDSHIP FOR FRIENDSHIP'S SAKE.

And be able to play "hostess" at all the family events? I'm sure she would love it. Is that what you want, to just be good friends? That is what the majority of WAW's would like to do.....be friends with their LBH and keep OM.

I'm glad she behaved herself at the party, but please, PLEASE, do not read anything into her actions other than she might have been putting on a front for others.....and she was probably cake eating.

She lost the right to call you "babe" and to give you those non-sexual touches. She has given you the ultimate disrespect and it is not right for her to come in and act as if she is still the "Mrs." in the home and take on that role at the BD party (and that is what she did). From this point on....she needs to have a separate party (if she wants to attend one) b/c she should not be allowed to attend family events when she is living in an open adulterous affair. Why allow her to have both worlds?

I always get amazed at how little it takes to make the LBH start almost gushing over his W again, but I suppose it's b/c he still loves her. Just keep focused.

I loved the way you handled the TM's from OW! That was perfect.

[stark648]

It's really really hard to "go dark" because of the kids.

My youngest d-11 still calls her Momma a lot.

Also, W still has furniture & stuff from s-16 and 2 pieces of furniture she said she was going to remove this week. Then, the moving will be all done...

Makes me sadder about that, actually. Seems more final.

If there's no excuses for her to come over while I'm around, how will she ever see anything about me or want to come back?


We were rather snippy at each other today, because my daughter was scheming to get W over to house to visit for her birthday(her actual b-day is today). D-11 had acted like it was W who was doing the planning. I had told d-11 to have Momma call ME if she was planning on a visit.

W called and was cranky --saying d-11 was the one doing the asking for a visit...I said fine, but I wanted direct calls, not through daughters. She was saying they were still her daughters and they still wanted to see her. I said of course they are, but the relationships can't be the same as they were between them, it was going to be different. She said, "I know it'll be different--but they're still my daughters, etc."

I can't really ask the girls to "go dark"--- And I don't even know if I should.

I keep thinking how before when wife was talking about how I didn't "fight the divorce" very hard... and wondering if I'm doing the right thing in acting like I'm completely moving on.



I don't know how OM could possibly get "out of the picture" because she can't support herself and d-16 without him. The three of them can barely support each other now. She seems to have made the three of them into her "new family" , and doesn't seem to mind being broke too much.


The whole situation is very saddening. I feel pretty discouraged and I could truly use some encouragement that it will possibly turn around at some point.

On the other hand, the new woman wants to go out next weekend and we sorta have a date---- This is not really the way I hoped things would go, as far as my family is concerned, but we could both enjoy each other's company--and yes, she knows I've only been separated since January.

I'm going to try to keep focused, but I hurt for the kids and us as a family, you know?