How (and who) to expose if OP is not married

[Allen A]

Just treat him like a child... you're a mom, he's just an extra child right now... set a good example, and he will follow it... you can't lecture him any more than you can a child.. it will go in one ear and out the other...

Show, don't tell... lead by example.

[Allen A]

I went with my wife to three different FT's.

BEFORE I went, i bought over a dozen save your marriage type books, including several on infidelity.

I read them, but I also left them OUT in the OPEN... she SAW I was working...

WHen I left the house, she woudl SNEAK into them and read passages... I made sure I KNEW EXACTLY where i put the books and there was always a few moved when i got back...

I woudl even put the bookmark in the spots that I wanted her to read... I NEVER ASKED HER to read anything, i knew she woudln't.

She LOVES reading... she couldn't resist..

I led by example...

I booked an appointment with a FT, I did all the research, and I told her about the appointment and I led by example... she would NEVER have gone if I hadn't started the ball rolling... but I NEVER pursued her to go... I made sure she KNEW it was HER CHOICE.

You just have to do the same.

[4luv]

Just an update. I made an appointment for myself to go see FT on Tuesday. Its the one that wrote the articles that I posted. I haven't spoken to him but I asked his receptionist about his credentials and she told me that he has been providing FT for over 20 years and that he is against divorce. I told the receptionist I would rather talk to the FT when I meet with him. Luckily over half of my sessions are free and covered by insurance. Last time husband and I saw a therapist we were paying 120.00/hour and I think the money alone turned husband off.

I have been feeling anxious these last few days and today its even worst. I have this feeling of not knowing the future with my marriage and my family...it could really go either way. That makes me feel uneasy. Lately husband has been using me as a sounding board for his feelings, etc. and I think as much as I want to listen to him, it is getting to me. Its hard to just listen to him say things like:
1. Sometimes this separation feels good and sometimes it feels bad.

2. I feel like I just want to give up...I want to wipe my slate clean and just start over

3. I loved two women in my entire life and I have a child by both of those women...(i.e. me and OW)

4. I am not sure if I want to work on the marriage...i just want to find out why I feel the way I feel, etc.

I know this is script but I can't listen to it any more. I told husband today that I would rather wait to discuss those topics during counseling because I don't have any answers for him. I told himi that I was also confused and didn't know which way to go so thats why I need to meet with FT.

Allen,

I will not be able to hand husband the FT card due to us living long distance but I will text him the information and tell him he can make the appointment. Is this a good idea or do I just let him know when my appointments are and tell him that he can come. Not sure how to really word it to husband...I don't want to pursue.

[Allen A]

OK, the FT will likley have a point here, but my advise is

1. Separate appointments ... at LEAST three for him to get a feel for BOTH of you FREE from the other being in the room

2. Once he knows the issues of BOTH sides, and has had a chance to compare notes (he will filter out the exaggeration and such) he will gradually reccomend some ideas ... ideas he gets from the spouse in private actaully, but to the spouse in the session, it looks like its coming from him.. see?

3. So, if he wants to meet BOTH of you together, that is a bit of a put - off.. MWD even said she usually splits couples up very early on to get an honest appraisal, they aren't distracted when thre isn't a spouse in the room - the FT gets their full attention

4. He may want to meet you two as a copule first to see the dynamic, THEn he may split you up to talk privately.. it could be etiher way... find out about that...

Re your H going, I would talk to the FT for at least 30 mins on your own... you ARE HIRING this person to do WORK for you, so he SHOULD be interviewed...

in my opinion these therapists are getting away with murder here

1. They offer services w/o a free consult - even a lawyer offers a free consult
2. They assume they are qualified to help you when they aren't always even close
3. They charge an OUTRAGEIOUS amount of money for their time

Now, this said, they CAN help, and a spouse hearing good advice from an AUTHORITY FIGURE has a HUGE influence on them... so its a GOOD thing to have even if it costs a lot

I know plumbers who charge 50 an hour... and they are just as knowledgeable about thier subject... even if they are grimier when they are done lol

So, ya, once you talk to the FT, they may say something on the matter of inviting your H

I think at text or email to him is fine... I am NOT a family therapist though, and I don't presume to be no...

But you CAN challenge them.. feel free to do that... these guys get away with MURDER ... they hide behind a PhD and just assume you should fall at their feet and hand your marriage over them for a guinea pig...

I don't know about you , but for example my wife LOVES her car, she would not let ANYONE work on her car except for ONE GUY she trusts... she WORSHIPS that car and is very good friends with this mechanic, she even gives him an x-mas gift. WOuld you treat your marriage with any less care... ?

So, ya if the FT is ok with that and YOU are ok with that, have him invited for a PRIVATE session.. i do NOT reccomend you be in teh room when he talks to the FT.

My last questino is... WHAT has this FT been doing for 20 years?

What kind of problems excite him? How many affairs has he dealt with? Ask him to tell you the DETAILS as much as he can so you know he KNOWS what these things involve

1. The lying
2. THe antaognism
3. The sneaking around
4. The scatterbrained WS who can't make up their mind
5. The defensiveness
6. The excuses
7. The negative script they throw at you all the time

All of this should be second nature to him.. if its not.. steer clear...

Ask him how he handles things, if the spouse says they wont commit to No contact, ask him how he DEALS with a spouse having an affair who will NOT END CONTACt... its a VERY provocative question... and his answer will be very telling...

[4luv]

Thank you allen for the questions to ask the therapists. I agree with how some of these therapists get away with murder. I too am like your wife with my car. I ONLY go to one dealership to have my car worked on so I need and will take the same care with my marriage.

I am not sure how I am doing in regards to DBing my husband. Of course I can't tell if affair with him and OW have slowed down. Last weekend when husband was here I saw his phone and OW had called three times. Two times he didn't answer but he answered the third call. She also sent him a text which said "You are REAL SLICK!!" I don't want to read into it but husband told me that he hadn't talked to her in a while. He said that he just cut everything off with her and any body else.

I spent a few hours yesterday on the phone with husband helping him with a job application. When I realized how long we were on the phone I said "wow, how long have we been on the phone? I have to go soon." Husband replied, "we haven't been on the phone this long in a LONG time! guess you figure if I didn't need help with this application I wouldn't be on the phone with you this long, huh?" I told him, I wasn't saying it like that just realized that time was flying by and I had some things to do.

Then husband went on to tell me that he was looking forward to moving into his apartment because it is a place that is finally HIS! He said that I probably won't understand but what he was missing was that chance to have his own place, nice and clean and to have people over to admire and see how he lives. He doesn't have to share his place and can put his things where he wants to put them. He then said that "maybe it won't be all that I think it will be and maybe I do need to grow up, but this is what I feel that I want."

So after husband says all this I just said that I can see why he feels that way even if I don't completely understand.

However, what I really do not get is how at one moment husband is "sad" that his actions drove his family away but then he is looking to the future with himself living in his own apartment as the best thing since slice bread. Like he is looking forward to his new independence! Its like he said, sometimes he wants to be married and sometimes he doesnt. He also said yesterday that the one thing that makes him think that living on his own won't be that great is that he won't get to see our son everyday and that isn't the type of father he wanted to be but oh well what can I do...life goes on :-( (yes, he said oh well to not seeing son everyday).

[Allen A]

I have a fair bit to say bout this, but I will have to write it later on... There's some good signs here, and some bad ones... minor but its worth discussing...

bbiab

[Allen A]

Thank you allen for the questions to ask the therapists. I agree with how some of these therapists get away with murder. I too am like your wife with my car. I ONLY go to one dealership to have my car worked on so I need and will take the same care with my marriage.

I don't know why people are so casual about selecting a FT, I think its becuase its a stressful thing to have to deal with... a lot more personal so they just want to get it overwith... guessing but that may be part of it

I am not sure how I am doing in regards to DBing my husband. Of course I can't tell if affair with him and OW have slowed down. Last weekend when husband was here I saw his phone and OW had called three times. Two times he didn't answer but he answered the third call. She also sent him a text which said "You are REAL SLICK!!" I don't want to read into it but husband told me that he hadn't talked to her in a while. He said that he just cut everything off with her and any body else.

Well, this info isn't too informative either way... Not sure at all what REAL SLICK is supposed to mean... Your husband is lying obviously, but he likley thinks lying to you will hurt less than telling you the truth.. You may want to casually mention to him that HE"S WRONG

I spent a few hours yesterday on the phone with husband helping him with a job application. When I realized how long we were on the phone I said "wow, how long have we been on the phone? I have to go soon." Husband replied, "we haven't been on the phone this long in a LONG time! guess you figure if I didn't need help with this application I wouldn't be on the phone with you this long, huh?" I told him, I wasn't saying it like that just realized that time was flying by and I had some things to do.

He's still willing to interact with you, but again he needs that strong parental influence I think.. its still missing...

Then husband went on to tell me that he was looking forward to moving into his apartment because it is a place that is finally HIS! He said that I probably won't understand but what he was missing was that chance to have his own place, nice and clean and to have people over to admire and see how he lives. He doesn't have to share his place and can put his things where he wants to put them. He then said that "maybe it won't be all that I think it will be and maybe I do need to grow up, but this is what I feel that I want."

Well, this is his private escape, it won't last, its just another infatuation... a childish one...

He has this idea that escaping adulthood and fighting to remain childlike and irresponsible is BETTER for him... he has this idea that growing up is SURRENDERING somehow...

I actually have some homework for you...

There's a film that came out in 1996 called Beautiful Girls... with Matt Dillon, Uma Thurman, and a few other talents I can't name right now... but I think this would be VERY EDUCATIONAL for you to understand whre your husband is coming from... rent that and watch it when you can.. it runs about 100 mins.. not an overly long film.. very educational for you i think.

So after husband says all this I just said that I can see why he feels that way even if I don't completely understand.

Hm.... Not sure what to say about all of this... This is a KEY PHRASE in there that you need to be aware of, if he says it again I would call him on it :

"but this is what I feel that I want"

He's basically saying

I feel like doing x
x is what i should do

This is a false claim

Drug addicts use this raesoning, children use this reasoning, criminals use this reasoning

Here's a quote from Phil McGraw to challenge taht.... you may want to write your own version of it to hand to him if he starts touting how important acting on how he feels is :

Be mature enough to recognize that life is not always all about you and what feels good for you in the moment. If you are married and have children, you have an obligation and a commitment that far transcends what feels good.

However, what I really do not get is how at one moment husband is "sad" that his actions drove his family away but then he is looking to the future with himself living in his own apartment as the best thing since slice bread. Like he is looking forward to his new independence! Its like he said, sometimes he wants to be married and sometimes he doesnt. He also said yesterday that the one thing that makes him think that living on his own won't be that great is that he won't get to see our son everyday and that isn't the type of father he wanted to be but oh well what can I do...life goes on :-( (yes, he said oh well to not seeing son everyday).

It's another childish escape... he doens't want to grow up... so he's creating escapes for him to HIDE OUT in... he keeps doing for what makes HIM feel better in teh SHORT TERM... he's a SHORT TERM THINKER...

Keep him away from teh stock market and casinos too...

I don't know ANYONE who loves being married 100% of the time... but he has children, he's got responsabilities...

You have likely noticed, but its worth noting... He is repeating the same pattern as his father...

HE is going to be as ABSENT in his son's life as his father is in his own... unless he sucks it up and acts like a man very soon...

In my opinion he needs a strong male influence educated in how to act like a MAN.. he needs that so bad it bleeds off the computer screen

[mb28]

I agree with Allen. It seems like you are doing good, stay focused.

[Allen A]

Watch that film 4luv!!!

[4luv]

Thx mb28 and Allen. I am definitely going to watch the movie beautiful girls. It sounds interesting...i asked my dad to rent it for me using his movie card so hopefully they have it in stock.

Yesterday was my first full day of NC with husband. He didn't call or text me and I didn't call or text him. I am not going to lie and say that I wasn't disappointed but I still had fun yesterday. Husband did call me today. I missed three of his calls because I wasn't near my phone. So I did call him back and he said he was calling to see how our son was doing. I told him he was good and that I was about to take him to the park (this is our son's first time at the park!! ). Husband didn't sound excited, so I just put the phone to our son's ear so that he could here husband's voice. Then there was silence on the phone and husband "well, I was just calling to check on yall." I guess it is positive that he at least included me but I don't wanna look too much into his word choices. I asked him how was he and what did he do yesterday. Told me he was working all day. Then I said ok and he said he would talk to us later.

I shouldn't have asked how he was. I definitely do not plan to contact him. I wanted to email him picks of son on the swing but I am not going to do that either. Its sooo weird. On friday, he called me about 11 times total and I helped him with his job application and he was telling me some of the feelings he had about wanting to get his own place. But now all of a sudden he isn't talking to me or calling me. He has called and talked to me everyday since I moved away but now its like HE has decided to go NC with me!?! I don't get it? The last thing I said to him on Friday was I would talk to him later and this is after we were on the phone for over an hour.