how do i keep my hope alive?

[CityGirl]

Sorry, my screen went nuts...

I think it is very easy to say you have examined your spouses POV but have you (general you) *really* done that? Jeff made a comment that really stuck with me. Often times we only examine our spouses POV through our own lens and our lenses are clouded with our own thoughts and ideas.

I also think that many people simply cannot accept their spouses for what they are. As you said, your W has cultural expectations that you cannot meet, understand or agree with. Do you really think those will change? If they do change will there always be some form of resentment? Obviously I can't answer that question.

My H, two years later is still very much a WAS. We have not lived together for 2 years. He has been with OW for 2 years. We have been legally separated for four months and there is not one conversation that goes by where he doesn't say at least five times "I can't be married anymore". Um, yes, I sort of gathered that. There is nothing more I can do to change that dynamic nor do I care to put any additional effort towards that goal. I could ask him what color the sky is and his response would be "blue but I still can't be married anymore".

I don't ignore him per say but he and I have very little contact because I see no reason to listen to the same stuff I have heard for two years. Our emotional connection has been severed, our marriage dissolved by the law, assets divided and so on. To keep going round and round, for ME, is not productive.

So I take him at face value because it is what it is. I do see very clearly how stagnant he has remained in any sort of personal growth. He feels R should not be work. I won't ever change that opinion. OW has not changed that opinion. So I accept it and that is that. But I also know for ME that would not be a healthy dynamic.

[talia]

TTA,
I havent' had a chance to read the advice you've gotten since yesterday!! I'm glad everyone came over. I hope it helps
Have a fabulous trip!!!! Forget about the craziness of your life right now and just enjoy the wonderful experience of serving others. I am sure it will be wonderful!!

Last Hijack - I promise...

OTM - I hope this helps you too! I WANT to see everyone here succeed in saving their relationships. I would post on your thread but I can't seem to find you. I hope you will take note of the vets here and see some good things you can do to help yourself. Remember - everyone here is hard on people because they care - its not personal!!!

T

[Onthemountaintop]

It is interesting you mentioned his parents had a nasty divorce. Did your MC deal with that at all (if his parents' D affects his ability to commit without expected to eventually fail?)

[Onthemountaintop]

i think after seeing how well i was doing, he started following my lead, but is still

Seems very true - keep up the great work when you get back from a great week of helping others. Just a thought...maybe going "dark" from this blog and your husband for the first couple days might help you focus. Going to Retro for a few days without a computer is going to be a strange feeling because I'm always connected. It might be very good for a R, though...

I saw a Mike Holmes (house fixing guy on TV) doing a N.Orleans thing - you're going to need some sleep! Don't foget to get some~

[Onthemountaintop]

Screen Problems Might Be: If you're using Internet Explorer 8, you need compatibility mode on (the box with a broken page next to refresh)

You mentioned culture, were you talking about TTA?\

Looking at others POV is hard, that is probably why I've often talked about "how do you think he sees it?". Not mind reading, just trying to see the other side. I've heard a phrase, 'make 73 excuses for your brother'. While responsibility always need be first, the excuses make it easier (for me) to look at someone's reason when I'm convinced I already know that answer. Easier doesn't mean I do it nearly enough!

Sorry to hear about your sitch CG, but I have a feeling that all of us on these boards in our own ways are or have learned a lot about moving on if it comes to that. Your next R will likely be much stronger for your dedication now.

ADHD was mentioned by NewMama...I'm off and on using meds, but one thing many adults know is that years of problems as children make one both stronger, and also more easily hurt by certain things. The POV thing/understanding for you TTA is a good thing, I think, because it helps know what buttons you can push to get the idea that change is needed. My W knows many of my buttons for good, but rarely uses them. I know she knows them, because when she uses them I tell her~ Frankness is definately a mixed bag of goodies with ADHD!

[chatterbug]

I find it interesting that your H deploys some very passive aggressive controlling techniques on you and you may not realize it. An example would be contacting you around when you were moving.

As someone with ADHD too, I think that is a fear reaction when we realize the attention lack might be leading to something that could be bad, but we are unsure. 'Reach out and test the waters' kind of thing. It looks and feels passive-agressive, but for me at least, it is often reactionary. Not very helpful to a R, I'm sure!

CB, do you think that is something to deal with if TTA gets as far as MC, or is there a way to prompt him (and me!) to deal with it before reconciling?

I feel that this would be one of top issues to work on and resolve. It would be part of breaking the cycle. Passive aggressive behaviours are very damaging. And its something a man needs to learn to stop doing them.

Passive Aggressive behaviours counter taking full responsibility for your relationship. Your countering your feelings and fearing your wife and hiding out to avoid issues at home.
Think of it this way.
"Compassion for my family trumps my need to be right"
"I speak my mind in spite of my fear of confrontation" Quotes from Wayne M. Levine.


If you have not read the book Hold on to your NUTS by Wayne M Levine please do. There is a chapter called Silence the little boy. Here we call it setting boundaries and expressing how you feel. But the goal is the same. Learning what your core values are and enforcing them. Be true to your feelings. Never be afraid to express them. Never apologize for your feelings.
VS.
I cannot talk about this she "nags" me so I am going to be silent. Withhold intimacy. Call her names, control her. ETC ( what ever the person does )...

This is a 180 that you can work on and her H can work on. ADHD or not. We all have our coping skills that we deploy. He needs to be taught different coping skills.

Right now its.
ALL NEW >> COMPLACENCY >> DEPLOY PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE TENDENCIES >> tta countering >> FLIGHT >> SILENCE >> ALL NEW >> COM.....

tta needs to attack complacency and passive aggressive tendencies to break the cycle. And this cycle happens very quickly between them. Which I agree with her Mother on.

[CityGirl]

Screen Problems Might Be: If you're using Internet Explorer 8, you need compatibility mode on (the box with a broken page next to refresh)

You mentioned culture, were you talking about TTA?\

Thank you for the tip! (RE: compatibility mode). It worked. This has been driving me crazy for some time as I can't use the quote feature. Now I can! And yes, I was talking to you about the culture issue, sorry I was not clear.

Looking at others POV is hard, that is probably why I've often talked about "how do you think he sees it?". Not mind reading, just trying to see the other side. I've heard a phrase, 'make 73 excuses for your brother'. While responsibility always need be first, the excuses make it easier (for me) to look at someones reason when I'm convinced I already know that answer. Easier doesn't mean I do it nearly enough!

You are correct, it is very hard to really see things from the other side. And once can't truly attempt to see things from the other side if they (you, me) have already decided what is right or wrong. I used to tell my H all the time (pre-bomb) when he hurt my feelings. He always said "well, they shouldn't be hurt". Yeah, to you they should not be hurt but it doesn't mean they are not! That was a huge issue for us. If he said something shouldn't be, well, that was that.

Sorry to hear about your sitch CG, but I have a feeling that all of us on these boards in our own ways are or have learned a lot about moving on if it comes to that. Your next R will likely be much stronger for your dedication now.

Thanks. I am actually doing quite well with the occasional setback. I am in no hurry to get in another R but I do date very casually from time to time.

[trytryagain]

It is interesting you mentioned his parents had a nasty divorce. Did your MC deal with that at all (if his parents' D affects his ability to commit without expected to eventually fail?)

no, that issue never really came up for us in MC. he was too young when his parents split to remember them even being together. but they hate each other with a PASSION and it's caused a lot of problems for my H (and his sister) as they continued to scrap with each other as he got older (and even now). however, both his parents are long since remarried, with children from the new marriages and they are both in stable(ish), solid marriages.

[trytryagain]

tta needs to attack complacency and passive aggressive tendencies to break the cycle. And this cycle happens very quickly between them. Which I agree with her Mother on.

CB, what do you mean by that? how do you suggest that i attack complacency and passive aggressive tendencies?

and when you say you agree with my mother, do you mean you think it would happen again no matter what?

[talia]

My thoughts. Even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun.
I find it interesting that your H deploys some very passive aggressive controlling techniques on you and you may not realize it. An example would be contacting you around when you were moving. All his actions to open up with you always happen when you are doing something for yourself. Just enough to keep you in the place where he wants you to be.
Same now with your trip... He builds up the contact. Just enough.
You have mentioned that you deploy control with anger. A very wise good friend described anger to me like it was holding a ball underwater. It eventually must surface.......

I am going to offer the advice that you do not see him before you leave. Nor contact him. Just leave. And do not contact him at all while your away. Throw yourself into your life. And when your away take some time to think about LRT. Think about how you are always reacting. You may think you are controlling but I think you are wrong here. I think it is the other way around.

Wise Wise words my friend!! P.S..... This is the largest post I've seen you pen... Thank you for your insight here...

TTA - I think CB is making VERY valid points here. He's articulated what I've meant when I keep telling you that H is looking to have is EN's met by you. This is a perfect example of that. I'm glad you are leaving early in the morning and I'm glad you didn't re-arrange your schedule to see H. While you are gone It will be good to take a break from this... but also to muse a little on the idea of being less reactionary - how can you take control of your situation when it comes to H? I'm not sure what the right answer to that is - I think its something you need to feel out for yourself.

Listen to CB, He knows his stuff!!


T