No longer "stuck808". Now my name is Bond. "MrBond

[sandi2]

I think I get a better reaction when I'm going 'dim' around her.

You need to be very dim. I have thought that the two of you were together too much since the S.

You said that you felt you need to give her attention after OM is gone. But to be honest with you, I think the two of you need to be away from each other for a while. Besides, she needs to get that man out of her system once and for all.

You still have so much frustration with her and it is showing when you talk to her. I understand it. I don't blame you for feeling that way......but I don't think it will draw her back into your arms.

I think it might have been 25 Yrs who said something about you talking like a parent to her....and I'll be the first to say there are times a man has to use his voice of authority with a WAW, but I am going to take this from a different angle. Stop sounding & acting like her H. I don't know if you can do that without being away from her long enough to get some of these issues settled in yourself. I know you said you have forgiven her, but sweetie if you still tend to bring it up in conversations (i.e. the OM), then it is like a sore where you keep picking the scab. Yes, you have every reason to feel what you do, but I am moving past that and saying what I think may work.

She needs to stop thinking about you in the way she does. It really irked me when she said she would have had you arrested! And, what in the h#ll does she have to be scared about? I don't get it unless she has been so influenced by OM or other sources. She may not know who "she" is any longer...but she should know who you are! Anyway....I was going to move ahead with what may work.

She still thinks of you as being the bad guy in this stitch and until she stops that nonsense and starts desiring you....nothing is going to be like you want it to be. And, she isn't going to be attracted as long as you are pressing her. So, with that in mind, read over you last post and tell me if that sounds like a man who she would see as somebody she wanted to date? Would a lover talk to her that way? I know....the father of her children may, but you need to try to stop that and do a 180 and think of her as a woman who is not your W or even the mother of your children. Hard job, but you are the man for the job, Mr. Bond!

After you have been out of her way for a while and given yourself some distance, then you can approach her slowly and with a different attitude. You can turn on the charm and flirt with her. I don't think you can right now b/c you can't seem to help yourself from applying pressure to her. You contact her, send her emails, buy things for her, and spend way too much time with her. You are inviting her to spend time with you (and of course the girls) and you know that is pursuing.....and even a test, many times (like to see if she would miss OM's party and choose you over him).

If this was you posting to a newcomer (or an oldtimer) you would tear them up for doing these things you've done. (Hey, I raised you right... what can I say ). The only reason I haven't is b/c I have a soft place in my heart for you, but that doesn't do you any good, does it?

You need a new R with her.....but she still thinks of it as the old one. I kind of think you do too b/c you can't get away from it. Even though you really tried to convince yourself that you were moving forward and perhaps have a new love interest, you couldn't turn lose....and that is b/c you still love her. You have placed all bets on this, and I don't want to see you lose it. She has to see you differently, and dating didn't work and I think it was b/c she could see your feelings were still for her....not OW.

I haven't changed my mind about her screwed up hormones and her depression. I know if she were to get that straighten out she would be a different person, but in the meantime......revamp and start a new R with her.

Can you be around her without bringing up the past? Can you stop acting like you are M to her? I bet you didn't treat your friend the way you do your W (you know what I mean).

[MrBond]

sandi,

Thanks for getting back to me. To a certain degree I had put the OM out of my mind until he showed up to get me fired.

After that incident, I triggered and got even more upset at the fact that she chooses to ignore it. I mean I could have gotten into alot of trouble with my boss, but she didn't even ask if things were okay. And the fact that he's been trying for a couple of years to get me arrested was just icing on the cake.

I get the feeling that she's like an ostrich with its head buried in the sand. She wants to ignore that it's happening and it will all go away for her.

I really don't mean to come off sounding as a parent, but there are certain times along with what happened with her boss that I am not willing to put up with her attitude any longer.

For instance, today we got into a conversation about our youngest D's schooling. I wanted her to one school for the academics, whereas my W wanted her to go to the same school as my oldest for convenience. I was trying to discuss with her the pros and cons, but she adamantly refused to see any one's point but her own.

At one point she rolled her eyes at me and said "whatever". That's when I held my finger up and said "stop. We are having a discussion. I'm not saying I'm right and I'm not saying I'm wrong, I want to discuss this which means I'd like to hear your opinion." I told her that it was this type of thing that I wanted to improve our communication in.

I told her that ever since she's moved out she's actually more confrontational than when we lived together and that needed to stop. I reminded her in 18 years we barely argued, but now she just wants to start it every time and I wasn't taking it any more.

It was more of her portraying herself as a victim. I asked her if she honestly cared about me in light of what her boss was trying to do and she said 'yes'. But whatever.

Her family's enabling doesn't seem to help much either. I told her that I was afraid that we wouldn't be able to afford our youngest daughter's tuition and she said her mom was going to help pay for it.

So she really doesn't have to do anything as long as she keeps her head buried. It's the rest of us that have to pay for it. Honestly, even when I went dim with NC, she didn't call, no reaction, nada. Yet she's always sad when I see her.

[MrBond]

Honestly if she would have kept up with her attitude, I would've taken her across my knee and given her a spanking!

[sandi2]

I asked her if she honestly cared about me in light of what her boss was trying to do

This is what I'm getting at......and why I think it's too difficult for you "not" to bring her boss into the conversation when it turns into an argument.

The reality is that the two of you are just getting started with your girls in school. Think about all the issues that lie ahead over the years that doesn't even include school. I don't have to give you examples b/c you already know what I'm talking about.

Stuck, I can only imagine how you've held your tongue and even from taking her across your knee! I think you have been fantastic to hang in here for two years. But, I am very worried that she will not get her head out of the sand unless you try something different. As great as you may be, there is a limit to anything....and that's why I suggested that you take some time away from her. I realize it would be difficult not to talk about the kids, but you could make it "only" about the girls and nothing more. I think there have been many times you used the girls to try to bring the two of you together, and now she seems to be using them to wedge you apart.

I am worried about your heart and how this A has affected you. I'm not talking about the forgiveness, b/c I think you understand what that is about....but I'm talking about the wear & tear the betrayal had on you. You aren't over that yet. I don't know if anyone "ever" gets over it. I would think it's like a death.....you don't get over it, you only learn how to survive it.

I have racked my brain wondering what you could do that would jerk this woman out of the state she's in. I wish to goodness I had a better plan. I think she's crazy for not seeing what she has in front of her.....but I guess that is the case with WAW's. Do you discuss anything with your Pastor? Does she go to Church?

[MrBond]

She doesn't go to church although my D says that she's been reading the book "Jesus Speaks" which is a book of daily affirmations. So I think she's searching for something, but it would be alot better if she had a mentor to guide her along the way. I think if her mom or sister told her to get her butt in gear and save her M, she might do something, but who knows.

In terms of the A, I'm not necessarily bothered by what happened, but I am worried about what could still be happening. I mean this guy spent 2 years trying to get me and I had no clue. I don't think he's stopped either since I called him out on his bluff. It's that stuff that I'm worried about. And I'm worried about him doing something to my W.

Even after all this, I'm sure she still "trusts" him not to do anything to her.

I have been thinking about inviting her to go to Mass, that was one of the things I've been pondering.

I hear you about trying to make it all about the kids when we talk, and it was like that for awhile. I wanted to take it to the next level and get her to talk about herself for a bit, so that's when I started asking her about her day, etc. She has been opening up more, so that's a good thing.

The other thing different I've been doing is denying that she is a "victim". She played that card in the beginning and I accepted all the blame. That definitely didn't help. So I decided to "man up" a bit and got a better response.

To a certain degree I've been trying to think like the OM in terms of what I felt he gave her that she didnt' think she was getting from me. This is just to store in the back of my mind in case a chance for me to use it comes up.

I wasn't planning to go on about her, but what the heck. I think she's got some heavy self-esteem issues. Then the one time she speaks up (came up when she said she wanted to leave) and acted assertive, impulsive, etc., it's to commit adultery. Now all this crap has come up to the surface and I think she's embarassed. But rather than face it, she runs away from it and doesn't acknowledge it.

Well I guess I bring it up because I was the hurt party, not just once, but it's like an ongoing nightmare. Sometimes I feel like I'm being constantly punished for what she did and for once I'd like the bad karma to hit her rather than me.

[sandi2]

I had read back on your thread and thought I had caught up (when you had told about OM trying to get you arrested, the retirement party, etc.) but for some reason....I thought the arresting thing was some time back. I didn't realize it was recently. That is crazy. Doesn't make any sense. When is he scheduled to actually move out of town?

He apparently is more dangerous to your W's emotional/mental health than I thought. The very idea of him doing that! What was the purpose? Does his W just stick her head in the sand too?

Your W needs "somebody" to yank her butt in gear!

[MrBond]

sandi,

His retirement party was just this past Saturday. I didn't want her to feel alone (maybe I should have) so I invited her over for the barbecue at the house. I don't think he works at the hospital anymore, but I'm worried that if he was going after me for two years and I shut him down from trying to get me fired, he's still going to try something. Or at the very least, his friend who still lives here.

His pastor butt buddy is actually one of the heads of the First Presbyterian church here. Crazy when a man devoted to God defends the sinner and destroys the innocent.

I think any "normal" person would have snapped out of their funk when something like that comes up, but she didn't.

Quite honestly I don't know if his W knows anything about what's going on. I think it's a hoot that he called my boss to apologize to her for bringing the issue into the office, but he didn't apologize to me.

[MrBond]

So last night I brought up a R talk with my W when I called to say goodnight to my Ds.

Earlier in the morning she told me that she felt that when we talked she felt like her opinion didn't matter. I asked her to clarify. Basically this is the first real issue I've ever heard her bring up about why she might have left.

She said sometimes I didn't listen to her when she repeated things. I asked for her to give me an example, so she mentioned that she wanted to cancel the newspaper but I didn't want to. It seemed like a non-issue (compared with a crazy OM) but at least it was something.

I went into how I understand how it might have seemed I wasn't listening to her, but I didn't realize how much it bugged her. So I validated. I don't remember how we got onto the subject, but the OM was brought up and I asked if she thought he had anything to do with our sitch. She said no and that she was unhappy before that, etc. I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said she didn't know (I think from lack of coping). I told her she could have always talked to me about her happiness.

One thing I did make a point of telling her, was that her thing with the OM was a very big issue and that I understood that she might feel uncomfortable talking about it, but because of what he's been doing, we needed to. She told me there were alot of subjects that made her uncomfortable and I told her that was okay, but this was a big one because it affected me directly. Evidently she didn't tell anyone else about what happened to me, not even her sister and mom.

I told her that we've been through so much that we could always talk about things.

So in the end, I told her that I would like to work on our communication so that we could start rebuilding our friendship. She said 'okay' and actually asked me things about my day.

Hopefully this is a good sign. For me I think this is a 180. I didn't harp about the OM per se, but wanted her to slowly peek out of her shell.

I just have to find some way to keep the momentum going.

[flowmom]

I think you're going too far with the "nice guy"/friend thing. And that conversation sounded like pursuing. I think it would be better for you to figure out what went wrong in the M and then show her by your actions that you've changed.

It sounds like communication is an issues so I suggest this book if you haven't read it:

How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It

[MrBond]

Thanks flowmom.

I actually have read the book. I've been at this for just about 2 years now and I've tried alot of things. In the beginning, I definitely wasn't the "nice guy". I remained friendly but not pursuing, detached, etc. That didn't work. In fact, it actually pushed her farther away and she was very confrontational.

So I went the friend route which she was much more receptive to.

Bottom line is that she's got alot of growing up to do in terms of relationships. She'd rather run away from something uncomfortable than deal with it. And those whom she feels uncomfortable with, she cuts them out of her life. She did that with her best friend and had tried to do it with me. Problem is that since we have children together, she can't get rid of me! LOL.

This talking to her about the issues to let her open up is actually a new thing. It's taken a long time to get here, but I'll see how this goes. If it doesn't work, I'll switch gears again.

Anyone else with suggestions?