how do i keep my hope alive?

[Onthemountaintop]

I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to do.

Talia,
I might not agree, but having you here has helped TTA, so that's great~

I have no problem with disagreements. 2x4s on my thread about me, I can take, although just as an attack doesn't help with my W, I don't see how it help me, either, in a constructive way.

On someone else's thread, I really don't need to be told that "advice is terribly mis-placed" or "Your advice goes directly against what the book recommends" or "perhaps you should create your own forum".

I do apologize though. On this thread or any other, I am trying to be a better person and I should have ignored the words that basically came to shut up, get lost, or say it the way I see it. I'm here to improve and to see other POVs, including yours, whether writing or reading.

[Vulcanized]

O.K., now that that is all squared away ...

TTA, what is going on?

[chatterbug]

T asked me to stop over... And since T is a good friend.... So I have read your entire thread. I will post questions in the next post.

Here are a few things that stand out.

We are both 30, been married only 2 years.
Diagnosed with adult ADHD, attended counseling on his own and eventually the 2 of us together.
I pursued him, seeking assurance of his love, he withdrew.
which scared me so I began seeking assurance. Nothing really resolved,
didn't have it in him to fight for us anymore
but he says it should be "easier" for us to solve conflict without the breakups
i have NEVER initiated a breakup
and he felt that his own apartment would allow him the space to get some rest and be able to focus on this new job.
H currently is not on meds for ADHD
but he does drink a lot
so, my H emailed today and said he has an appt with an IC on Wednesday. i think it's a good sign that he's willing to admit he needs to talk to someone - especially without me suggesting it. he said his mother has insisted that he should be seeing someone, but at least he hasn't felt that pressure from me.
especially when i feel like we go through this breakup thing every 12-18 months.

i miss him soooooo much. it gets harder and harder every day to keep up my hope and optimism.
and he felt that his own apartment would allow him the space to get some rest and be able to focus on this new job.
Just wanted to point out the this below was beautiful
sorry if i'm rambling. seeing him today just sent me over the moon in love with him again, seeing him smile, seeing him cry, wanting to reach across the table and hold his hand...and now i'm sitting alone at the table where we used to share dinner and talk about our days and he is not here and he is not coming here, no matter how badly i wish or hope or pray he comes...he is not coming. not tonight and not for many other nights. maybe later on, all i can do is be the best me i can and find my own happiness in the meantime...but it doesn't take away any of the hurt of being alone tonight.

i'm doing my best to give him space and still let him know i'm around.
if you know you're going to get upset, why would you ask? anyway,
all i can do is show him my best self because i can't make up his mind for him.
but it's a lot easier when he's distant and unfeeling as opposed to when he's crying about how lost and alone he feels. does that make sense?
what is the "it?" hmmm. the it is the cycle of our relationship, where we are fine and dandy and happy as clams for a few months, maybe even half a year or more, and then i begin to feel like i get less and less of his attention and focus, i let him know i need more and that i'm not feeling loved, and he responds with "nothing i ever do makes you happy."

i know i should stop trying to understand every little thing he says or does. i know i should focus more on my EN's than his.

my mom tells me that even if we worked things out, i could expect him to want to leave off and on for the rest of our lives.

i understand the concern about the "mind reading." it helps me try to gauge where we are, and i know that despite what he says, he may be feeling something entirely different.

i did cry when i got off the phone with him. i've been longing for him to say that to me for over a month and he just said it out of the blue. it took me a full ten seconds to take it in and then respond. i never doubted that he loves me.

.i'd probably have thrown myself at his feet without the things i've learned from all of you on this site!

had a really nice time with my H tonight. we met for a drink and talked for a while like we were just on a date, nothing really about our R until a bit later in the night.

e did not talk about D, or really even being separated at all. he talked about how much he misses me and how he wants to get to a better place mentally before making any big decisions. but this is what DB is all about, right? just slowing down the talk and the idea of moving towards D?
you know what her response was? an APOLOGY. a genuine, heartfelt apology. i wish i could have seen my face. it felt GOOD to set that boundary! i should have been doing this years ago!
when he wanted to separate back in 2008, he started seeing a counselor. i watched and waited. he proved through his actions that things would be different. and now i'm in this place again.
especially when i feel like we go through this breakup thing every 12-18 months.
i know i am trying to mind read or interpret his emails and that i need to stop. but at the same time,
last time we reconciled, it was all about talk. talk talk talk. he wrote me these amazing letters and bowled me over with promises to be a better man and do this and that and i believed it all. his actions backed up his words for about 2 months before he slowly started slipping back into his old behaviors...spending less and less time with me, more time at work, more time with his buddies, drinking more, going out more...so, i guess what i'm saying is that even IF we did decide to work on the M, i don't even know HOW i would go about learning to trust this man again.

if it's true this is a cylce that will only continue to repeat itself, how much of myself do i want to invest in this R?

[Onthemountaintop]

I kind of think marriage has to be about the individual first. Two unhealthy individuals can't have a healthy marriage. Wouldn't BOTH individuals have to be healthy in order to create and maintain a healthy union?

That makes sense, CityGuil...but if your spouse isn't healthy, then do you leave/ignore them until they are healthy? Do you just try to understand their POV considering their issues, or take it at face value?

[chatterbug]

Reading all that. I think coach summed it up on Page 8.

What is the "it"? What's the same conversation? This is what you 180. You change and the dynamic changes.


My thoughts. Even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun.
I find it interesting that your H deploys some very passive aggressive controlling techniques on you and you may not realize it. An example would be contacting you around when you were moving. All his actions to open up with you always happen when you are doing something for yourself. Just enough to keep you in the place where he wants you to be.
Same now with your trip... He builds up the contact. Just enough.
You have mentioned that you deploy control with anger. A very wise good friend described anger to me like it was holding a ball underwater. It eventually must surface.

Now my questions.

Did the anger and control feel like a ball underwater ?
What is the history of your H's previous relationships ?
Do you feel that your H is a narcissist ?
Is the 2 months when your back together like first 2 months you were together?
What drove you apart the last 3 times?
What drove you apart the first time ?
What have you noticed so far that works ? ( I can see it reading the whole stitch )
What have you noticed so far that does not work ?



Thats all my questions for now.

I am going to offer the advice that you do not see him before you leave. Nor contact him. Just leave. And do not contact him at all while your away. Throw yourself into your life. And when your away take some time to think about LRT. Think about how you are always reacting. You may think you are controlling but I think you are wrong here. I think it is the other way around.

[Onthemountaintop]

I find it interesting that your H deploys some very passive aggressive controlling techniques on you and you may not realize it. An example would be contacting you around when you were moving.

As someone with ADHD too, I think that is a fear reaction when we realize the attention lack might be leading to something that could be bad, but we are unsure. 'Reach out and test the waters' kind of thing. It looks and feels passive-agressive, but for me at least, it is often reactionary. Not very helpful to a R, I'm sure!

CB, do you think that is something to deal with if TTA gets as far as MC, or is there a way to prompt him (and me!) to deal with it before reconciling?

[newmama]

Trytryagain I am catching up on your thread and look forward to seeing you turn into a success story! I hope you are having fun on your trip!
(I hope it is supposed to be a fun trip and not for a funeral or something- I need to read!)
OK
I am being bold here but let me say this- ADHD is NOT schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder. You can still tell the difference between right and wrong even when you have ADHD. My best friend in the world has ADHD and so do some family members. I have other experiences working with kids and adults with ADHD. It doesn't go away but people who have it are aware of the rules and how to treat people; even though it is AFTER they said or did something wrong! So my best friend does not repeatedly insult her husband/burn dinner/leave keys in her car/not finish helping her daughter with her homework...she MANAGES herself with routines and plans and intentions.

I really hope this isn't too offensive. I am just being honest and don't want you to excuse poor treatment because your H has ADHD.

[trytryagain]

WOW. so much to say in response to all the posts since i've last signed on! thanks so much to all of you for stopping by and lending an ear to my situation.

to start, newmama, i know what you're saying about ADHD. the difference between your best friend and my H is that she MANAGES her adhd. my H is a self-medicator (drinking, smoking pot) and often allows his ADHD to manage HIM. i know ADHD isn't an excuse for treating someone poorly. but my H doesn't seem to have a grip on his the way your best friend has on hers. and it makes for a very complicated and often tumultuous R!

CB -

Did the anger and control feel like a ball underwater ?
Not really, no. The anger goes as quickly as it comes for me and usually turns itself into sadness rather than festering below the surface.

What is the history of your H's previous relationships ?
H dated around a lot prior to us getting together and I think had one serious relationship before me. She cheated on him. His parents divorced when he was a baby and continue to loathe one another to this day (30 years later!!!).

Do you feel that your H is a narcissist ?
I think he can demonstrate narcissistic qualities, but even since our last split in 2008, he's worked hard to be a better person in that sense. Prior to the split he frequently put himself before me...after getting back together we had a much more solid partnership.

Is the 2 months when your back together like first 2 months you were together?
The first 2-3 months we were back together after our 2008 split was better than when we first got together. It was amazing. And we actually just had a pretty awesome summer together. Motorcycle road trips, a week in Montreal...it was like dating for the first time all over again!

What drove you apart the last 3 times?
Impulsive decisions on his part that we were better off apart.

What drove you apart the first time ?
We were actually planning to move in together but he got overwhelmed with work, graduating from college, his family putting pressure on him, and the idea of such a big commitment, so...he broke up with me quite out of the blue.

What have you noticed so far that works ? ( I can see it reading the whole stitch )
Not pressuring him and letting him come to his own conclusions seems to work. Being supportive and just letting him know I'm around but not overly available. Being there for him when he feels like no one else is. Showing him that I don't NEED him in my life but I want to have him around. Gaining some indpendence for myself and seeking my own path to happiness.

What have you noticed so far that does not work ?
I don't really find that NC works very well. I respond when he sends me a message but I rarely initiate contact. Anger and resentment do not work. Making him feel like he is to blame does not work.

CB, i actually will NOT see him before i leave. i have movie plans with my girls tonight and have an early flight tomorrow so no time to meet up with him, anyway. he wants to find some time to talk on the phone before i go so he can wish me safe travels, etc., but i actually have a pretty full day today. i get what you are saying about passive-aggressive/manipulation and i've actually had that at the back of my mind as a warning to myself to tread lightly and not let myself get too caught up with what he says/does. i can see how it would look like he wants to keep just enough contact to make him feel like i'm right there if he needs me...and i don't know if that's the case or not, but all i can control is my responses to him, right? i'm not jumping to see him or canceling my plans so that i can meet up with him instead of my friends.

thanks again for all the supportive and thoughtful posts. one more day til i'm nola bound!!

[CityGirl]

That makes sense, CityGuil...but if your spouse isn't healthy, then do you leave/ignore them until they are healthy? Do you just try to understand their POV considering their issues, or take it at face value?

No, I don't think leaving or ignoring is the answer (aside from abuse) if one spouse isn't healthy. I do think in many cases it only takes one to change the dynamic and perhaps that will help lead BOTH spouses to growth.

Sadly this usually only happens after the fact when one spouse has shut down and checked out.

[trytryagain]

good point, CG. i'm working on getting to the healthiest mental/emotional/physical/spiritual place i can get to...i wouldn't say my H has "checked out" entirely at this point. he was much more checked out about a month ago, when he moved out. i think after seeing how well i was doing, he started following my lead, but is still only in the very VERY early stages of working on his own mental/emotional health.

like newmama said earlier, the ADHD isn't just going to go away and he'll become a new person. but hopefully with time and professional help, my H can learn to manage his ADHD. certainly i don't believe he should be left/ignored because he's not "healthy," but i also can't take any of the steps towards getting healthy FOR him. that has to come from HIM.