The biggest clue is that a normal person who didn't have someone else in the picture would say this when you told them you were sorry for your mistakes and want to make them right...
"Well, what do I have to lose? I guess I can give it another chance since he seems so sincere. We do have a history together so I guess I can see if he is serious."
You see? They really have nothing to lose. When there is nobody else they are open to your changes.
Now. When they DON'T want to try, then it is a sure bet that they are emotionally invested somewhere else. Did you ever watch the Tarzan movies? He swings from vine to vine. HOWEVER, he doesn't let go of one vine UNTIL he has the next one in his grasp. He then stops thinking about the vine he just had his security invested in and is now invested in the new vine.
That is how it usually goes with humans.They hang on to the vine that they have with a tight grasp until the next vine is within their grasp. They kinda hold on to both vines at once until they are sure they next vine is secure enough to let go of the last one. If they have no new vine coming at them then they keep swinging on the one they have within their grasp. They don't let go if there is no other vine. Too scary.
This is why you must find out the truth. You can't bust the divorce without all the facts. The reasons she is giving you most certainly don't make sense UNLESS there is someon new.
Why you should never supplicate and what does it mean to supplicate:
When you supplicate (buy gifts, dinners, give things away such as your time, effort, money, resources, for free to your spouse/gf to make them like you), you imply that you don't know how to legitimately display your own worth, so you need to resort to trying to buy the approval of those you are implicitly acknowledging as being higher-value than yourself.
To reiterate my situation, W lives in the guest room, I am in the master bedroom. I pay the bills. She provides dinner on the table and looks after my son.
Do you have bicycles? Do you ride together you and your son?
a) recognizing your contribution to a deteriorating marriage by shutting out your spouse and turning to self pleasure instead of staying true to your commitment to your wife (over HOW MANY years of your marriage?)
and
b) being offended by your wife's attempts to seek out another person and her desire for time to work out her issues...
It's funny on here sometimes. We regularly counsel people to not believe the words that come out of the wandering spouse's mouth and only half of what they do...
Unless they say something strange like, "I think it will take me two years to figure out my mess," in which case we lock on to that as though somehow it is a concrete truth.
So which is it? Does your wife speak the truth and know somehow what the future holds? Or is she a jumbled up mess inside who is occassionally spouting off some poor attempt at communicating her confusion?
You do get to decide Mike, that's the thing.
You can choose to take the tougher, firmer approach and put an end to your marriage now. After all, she is hurting you and it's been going on for several months now.
On the other hand, you hurt her regularly for how long again? And she endured it and made it until just recently, when she finally decided to try to find what she was looking for elsewhere. LONG after you had shown her that you were either unwilling or unable to give it to her.
See, it would be nice if this was all cut and dried and easy to analyze and make decisions on. But I"m inclined to think it's a bit more complicated than that.
Don't get me wrong. Infidelity is wrong. Your failures do not make her wanderings ok. But I think you would agree that your wife's actions here of late are NOT exactly unprovoked.
The question is, how much do you love this woman and how set are you on doing your best to save this marriage?
There is certainly room for firmness and establishing boundaies here. You can "be a man" and all that, not giving in to her every whim, because quite frankly, many of her whims right now are goofy and make little sense. But I don't think you have to show your manliness by pushing for a divorce and pushing her out the door.
There is some space between where you are right now and a divorce, is all I'm saying.
And did you not say recently that she ended the online deal?
Lot's to think about Mike.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
To reiterate my situation, W lives in the guest room, I am in the master bedroom. I pay the bills. She provides dinner on the table and looks after my son.
Do you have bicycles? Do you ride together you and your son?
Yes, we have been riding and playing ball before dinner.
Feel great to build and strengthen a relationship with someone who is open and willing towards it.
a) recognizing your contribution to a deteriorating marriage by shutting out your spouse and turning to self pleasure instead of staying true to your commitment to your wife (over HOW MANY years of your marriage?)
and
b) being offended by your wife's attempts to seek out another person and her desire for time to work out her issues...
It's funny on here sometimes. We regularly counsel people to not believe the words that come out of the wandering spouse's mouth and only half of what they do...
Unless they say something strange like, "I think it will take me two years to figure out my mess," in which case we lock on to that as though somehow it is a concrete truth.
So which is it? Does your wife speak the truth and know somehow what the future holds? Or is she a jumbled up mess inside who is occassionally spouting off some poor attempt at communicating her confusion?
You do get to decide Mike, that's the thing.
You can choose to take the tougher, firmer approach and put an end to your marriage now. After all, she is hurting you and it's been going on for several months now.
On the other hand, you hurt her regularly for how long again? And she endured it and made it until just recently, when she finally decided to try to find what she was looking for elsewhere. LONG after you had shown her that you were either unwilling or unable to give it to her.
See, it would be nice if this was all cut and dried and easy to analyze and make decisions on. But I"m inclined to think it's a bit more complicated than that.
Don't get me wrong. Infidelity is wrong. Your failures do not make her wanderings ok. But I think you would agree that your wife's actions here of late are NOT exactly unprovoked.
The question is, how much do you love this woman and how set are you on doing your best to save this marriage?
There is certainly room for firmness and establishing boundaies here. You can "be a man" and all that, not giving in to her every whim, because quite frankly, many of her whims right now are goofy and make little sense. But I don't think you have to show your manliness by pushing for a divorce and pushing her out the door.
There is some space between where you are right now and a divorce, is all I'm saying.
And did you not say recently that she ended the online deal?
Lot's to think about Mike.
Blessings,
Bill
Bill your advice is too generalized, can you be more specific?
What she says isn't the concrete truth, you're right about that. But you fail to recognize that she disrespects him because he allows her too and asks us what to make of that. If she doesn't respect him, she can't love him - women who don't respect the men they're with can't love them and often more times than not will hurt them and treat cruelly. That's what's happening now.
Instead of wandering these forums for years asking the same questions over & over again and doing things that don't work, I suggest he take a different approach, one where he observes reality instead of continuing to pursue his wife and getting depressed by his emotions and feelings on a daily basis.
Well, vascillating back and forth between "I'm going to be patient and work on becoming the better man" and "You are disrespecting me and need to leave" is definitely NOT going to get Mike anywhere.
My point earlier was to say that Mike needs to make a decision. Which way he goes is up to him to decide, but he needs to DECIDE.
Part of his problem right now is that he is uncomfortable with either decision - he hasn't bought in to either course of action. And indecision only makes his overall demeanor worse by making him appear and FEEL weak.
I have a problem with a spouse remaining in the family home if he/she intends to pursue any type of relationship with another person. For me that would be unacceptable, and something would have to change.
I thought that Mike has written earlier that his wife had claimed to have stopped the online relationship. That being said, her expressed desire to "be free" certainly makes it sound like she intends to at least be open to involving herself with others. Again, for me at least, that would be a serious deal breaker and would require her moving on in another location.
But that's just me. This is Mike's situation, and HE has to make the decision.
I'll say one more time that the message I want to send to Mike is...MAKE A DECISION on what you want to do, what you can accept, and then STICK to that decision with confidence.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I want to be comfortable with being strong but in doing so, I realize I can have only limited interaction with my wife.
Living in the same house doesn't bode well for limited interaction.
With that said, she needs to move out but in doing so, it opens up a whole new can of worms
* how do we handle with our 9 year old son * I need to sell a house in a bad market * Splitting up 1 families worth of stuff so that it starts off two new households
I fear if we go down this road, she might file for divorce as a way to bring absolute closure.
I have checked on what would happen if there is a divorce and it is not pretty. I would be paying her $25k per year for the rest of her life.
Sorry, but I don't remember our vows including a clause which mandated me to pay her monthly if our marriage failed.
This sucks - I have to be strong and live in the same house with the person I am beginning to hate.
I guess women really are tougher than we guys. She made it thru all the years of your marriage.
You're crapping out after months...
You know, you're not the first couple that had to handle the un-niceties of separation. No, it's not fun, not comfortable. But don't talk about it as though it's some incredible hurdle that can't be done.
Kind of sounds like you're on a bit of "feel sorry for yourself" trip. I would submit to you that this is likely how your wife felt for a long time. Guess she just managed to tough it out for longer, huh?
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
